Logic vs. Theism
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18-03-2017, 11:44 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Christians spend more time trying to refute their own text than atheists do.

Why not drop the damn thing and replace it with, "Jesus says be nice"?

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19-03-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Regarding things like slavery, the bible could potentially be viewed as progressive and pragmatic if you treat it as an attempt by people at that time to soften the attitudes of a barbaric culture.

But as soon as you claim that it's God's one and only message in which he declares for all time what is and isn't acceptable, there is absolutely no excuse for him simply regulating slavery and not outright banning it. He has no problem banning almost everything else you could ever think of, including eating shellfish and wearing clothes woven from two different materials. It's a joke.

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19-03-2017, 12:32 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.
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19-03-2017, 12:39 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 12:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.

what verse does Jesus OR god say "Don't own slaves, it is wrong."

out of all the bullshit you've linked, why didn't you link proof of this claim?

also.... we already fucking know why Christians eat shell fish, we call them out on their hypocrisy.


Little hint, I already know the answers to my questions. I want to know if YOU know.

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19-03-2017, 02:50 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
A Christian who claims the bible is the "word of God" and then eats shellfish is indicating that they know better than God, or don't care what he has to say.

If a Christian instead doesn't make such an outrageous claim, they're welcome to pick and choose whatever they like without hypocrisy.

I would love to see where the New Testament bans slavery. Even if it did, it meant God was wrong first time. But it doesn't.

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19-03-2017, 03:00 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
What I'm saying.... is that we can either assess what the bible has to say on its own merits, like we would any other book; or we can be told to accept it on authority. It's the second attitude that I'm opposed to, which leads to most of the problems, and causes insane amounts of hypocrisy.

I wish more Christians would adopt the former attitude. Or at least be more explicit about it. People who just find ways to ignore what it says through mental gymnastics are doing this, but not admitting it.

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19-03-2017, 03:06 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Hmm, well. If people really did think it was the "word of God", we wouldn't be having to tell them what it says. They'd have read the damn thing.

Seriously, can you imagine thinking that, and never properly reading it? A walking contradiction.

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19-03-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 03:06 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Hmm, well. If people really did think it was the "word of God", we wouldn't be having to tell them what it says. They'd have read the damn thing.

Seriously, can you imagine thinking that, and never properly reading it? A walking contradiction.

Jesus spoke several parables involving slaves, but not once denounced the institute of slavery. Nor did Paul. Supposedly, Jesus is God for trinitarian Christians. So God/Jesus did not seem to find it an important issue to deal with, for example telling Christians not to own slaves.

Yes, some Christians did oppose slavery, often they were Christians like Quakers and Unitarians and other despised non-orthodox Christians. But freethinkers and atheists also opposed slavery and were among leaders of the abolitionist movement in America. But God?Jesus in the NT did not openly condemn slavery.

It's sad that at this late date, we are still having this argument.

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19-03-2017, 05:37 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Jesus spoke several parables involving slaves, but not once denounced the institution of slavery. Nor did Paul. Supposedly, Jesus is God for trinitarian Christians. So God/Jesus did not seem to find it an important issue to deal with, for example telling Christians not to own slaves.

Yes, some Christians did oppose slavery, often they were Christians like Quakers and Unitarians and other despised non-orthodox Christians.
I read a historical account of this once and it said they were actually astounded that the Bible offered no unambiguous support for anti-slavery views, and quite a bit of ammo for pro-slavers. They were forced to resort to indirect arguments (and, I would imagine, probably this era served as the origin of the modern common circumlocution that ancient slavery was somehow different and less inhumane than modern slavery).

In other words the Bible led from behind in this area. Anti-slavery theists could only say the Bible said to be nice to others, which was damned weak as an anti-slavery argument given the Bible's explicit instruction of how to be a "nice" slave-owner.
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19-03-2017, 06:08 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 12:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.

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Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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