Logic vs. Theism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-03-2017, 06:10 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 12:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.

Facepalm
> Wrong! The New Testament supports slavery. To wit:

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

> It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians know less about their own Bible than atheists. Dodgy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like Gwaithmir's post
19-03-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 12:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.

Facepalm
> Wrong! The New Testament supports slavery. To wit:

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

> It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians know less about their own Bible than atheists. Dodgy

The verses in Colossians and Ephesians even equivocate Christianity to slavery and use that analogy to assert that is why you should obey your Master, because god is THE slave master. Facepalm

[Image: 71822208.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like TheInquisition's post
19-03-2017, 06:23 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 06:21 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  Facepalm
> Wrong! The New Testament supports slavery. To wit:

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1)

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, 8knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.” (Ephesians 6:5-9)

“Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.” (Timothy 6:1-2)

“Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior.” (Titus 2:9-10)

“Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.” (Peter 2:18)

> It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians know less about their own Bible than atheists. Dodgy

The verses in Colossians and Ephesians even equivocate Christianity to slavery and use that analogy to assert that is why you should obey your Master, because god is THE slave master. Facepalm

[Image: 71822208.jpg]

> Excellent point. Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Gwaithmir's post
19-03-2017, 06:26 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 12:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.

Time to put up or shut up SV. Show where the NT actually "bans slavery" or admit that you are reading only what you want to read and don't have a fucking clue what the text actually says.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like unfogged's post
19-03-2017, 08:03 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(19-03-2017 06:26 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 12:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Christians eat shellfish and in fact the new testament bans slavery.

Time to put up or shut up SV. Show where the NT actually "bans slavery" or admit that you are reading only what you want to read and don't have a fucking clue what the text actually says.

10 bucks says that it's the old 'NT rules and regulations supersede OT rules and regs, therefore "Love thy neighbour"' routine.

No reason why, of course, that one cannot 'love' thy slave-neighbour.

Which I'm sure happened quite a lot.

Blink

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
19-03-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
What a dishonest fuck you are, SV.

You brought up that article on GotQuestions the very first time we discussed this issue.

We explained to you why that article is dishonest in how it talks about the issue.

For instance:

1) It says that slavery of today is different somehow from slavery of the past. This is overwhelmingly false and ridiculous on its face. More egregious is that he pretends that the skin-color based racial slavery is somehow fundamentally different from the nationality-based slavery spelled out by the Bible.

2) It ignores numerous verses in both the old and new testaments which clearly state that slavery (for people of other races/nations) is permanent, heritable, and that it is okay to beat your slaves so long as they do not die immediately... rules that the South also had, even prior to the Civil War.

It is appalling that your author tries to claim that the Bible's statement about Adam being made in the "image of God" means we are all made in the image of God and therefore the Bible is against racial discrimination, given the above. I am astounded that he even tried to forward that interpretation of what Genesis 1:27 was written to mean, or that you took him at his word on it.

3) Basically, it is dishonest on almost every level, with the whole anti-"man stealing" bit, pretending that condemning the practice of capturing people for the purpose of enslaving them is the same as condemning the practice of slavery.

Europeans did not capture slaves, themselves, but bought them from West Africans who were selling their fellow Africans into slavery. The "immoral man stealers" were the Africans themselves, not the Christians who bought and sold those captured slaves... which is how the Christians who enforced the system of slavery for almost 400 years managed to justify their actions.

The US southern states even outlawed slave capture and even importation for sale-- starting with Virginia in 1778 (because of Thomas Jefferson, himself a slave owner, pushing the issue), and it was completely illegal by the 1830s. And yet, Southern senators objecting to abolition attempts pointed to the Bible verses which said that one could own permanent slaves as property, if they were of other nationalities, and the institution of slavery continued until the Civil War and the 13th amendment ended it in the 1860s.

By your author's standards, which he uses in defending the Bible, I could just as easily say that the Confederate States of America neither condoned nor justified slavery.

You and that author should be ashamed of yourselves for such intellectual dishonesty. More importantly, you should be ashamed of yourself for forgetting that you and I have already had this discussion.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
20-03-2017, 01:47 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
So.....

Where's this "NT bans slavery" reference?

What's most likely happened, in my opinion, is that someone has told him that the NT bans slavery. Is he now going to be honest enough to admit that it actually doesn't, which I'd have much respect for, or will he try and twist unconnected passages while ignoring the slavery endorsing ones?

Even if it did ban slavery, clearly Christians didn't give a fuck what God said and continued to have them for a long time afterwards, and God did nothing about it.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Robvalue's post
20-03-2017, 03:57 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Why not deal with Logic vs Theism AND Slavery................by paraphrasing Epicurus?

Is God willing to prevent slavery, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then why does slavery exist?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Silly Deity's post
20-03-2017, 04:08 AM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 04:15 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(20-03-2017 01:47 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  So.....

Where's this "NT bans slavery" reference?

What's most likely happened, in my opinion, is that someone has told him that the NT bans slavery. Is he now going to be honest enough to admit that it actually doesn't, which I'd have much respect for, or will he try and twist unconnected passages while ignoring the slavery endorsing ones?

Even if it did ban slavery, clearly Christians didn't give a fuck what God said and continued to have them for a long time afterwards, and God did nothing about it.

The NT in no way bans slavery. What it does is advise Christians that, even if someone is a slave, that he is an equal brother in Christianity, regardless of his social status in the rest of society. It also encourages the system of slavery by suggesting that the natural relationship in the social status power-hierarchy is Slave->Wife->Husband->God (and that Christians should accept this power structure as natural, good, and something to rejoice in accepting).

Christians are correct when they point out that the Bible does not contain any "hooray for slavery!" passages.

But as an outsider, it is clear to me in a way that it is apparently not clear to them that, if their claim that the Bible was written (or "divinely inspired") by God Himself, then it is a shocking omission for this God Himself to be dictating a list of Things Not To Do™ that includes blending fibers, eating pork or shellfish, having sex with your own gender, speaking in certain unacceptable ways, working more than six days a week, allowing freedom of religion in your country, and so on and so on... but then to leave out "oh, and don't own humans like your neighbors do".

It's especially shocking that "God" omitted this, given the made-up "origins myth" scriptural history of the Hebrews that includes a terrible, torturous few centuries spent in slavery, themselves. "Since you know it sucks to be owned, you will not own people, yourselves" seems a pretty obvious command from on high.

But no, we get "Cut your foreskins off", but not "Don't own people". It could have been that simple, but it's not there.

That's why they have to do this bizarre (and dishonest) tapdance about what slavery really is, and what the Bible actually says about it... and ignore what it doesn't say.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
20-03-2017, 04:45 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
What about haircuts Big Grin




I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Robvalue's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: