Logic vs. Theism
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21-03-2017, 12:43 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Yeah...

This is what I thought would actually happen. The "walk quietly away and pretend I never said it" approach.

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21-03-2017, 02:04 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(21-03-2017 12:43 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Yeah...

This is what I thought would actually happen. The "walk quietly away and pretend I never said it" approach.

Well, see, it's tricky, isn't it? Tongue

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-03-2017, 02:10 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Yup. "I was wrong" is not a phrase that comes easy to some.

I used to know someone who was an habitual liar. He'd make outrageous claims, that even he knew weren't true, but once he'd said them he'd never back down. He'd pile lie onto lie to avoid ever having to admit a mistake. I don't know how I ever put up with him to be honest.

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21-03-2017, 03:53 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
logic:
correlation, mechanism, prediction.

emotional:
How we feel about it
personal needs, emotional needs, blind faith.

if we describe the events around us using predetermined agendas we will have a ton of inconsistencies and emotional self justifications. Our conclusions will be based on a warped world view of whatever goal we are seeking. Real or imagined isn't a real concern for some people. The end justifies the means for people seeking to fill that emotional uncertainty.
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21-03-2017, 05:24 AM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2017 05:37 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(20-03-2017 04:08 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:47 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  So.....

Where's this "NT bans slavery" reference?

What's most likely happened, in my opinion, is that someone has told him that the NT bans slavery. Is he now going to be honest enough to admit that it actually doesn't, which I'd have much respect for, or will he try and twist unconnected passages while ignoring the slavery endorsing ones?

Even if it did ban slavery, clearly Christians didn't give a fuck what God said and continued to have them for a long time afterwards, and God did nothing about it.

The NT in no way bans slavery. What it does is advise Christians that, even if someone is a slave, that he is an equal brother in Christianity, regardless of his social status in the rest of society. It also encourages the system of slavery by suggesting that the natural relationship in the social status power-hierarchy is Slave->Wife->Husband->God (and that Christians should accept this power structure as natural, good, and something to rejoice in accepting).

Christians are correct when they point out that the Bible does not contain any "hooray for slavery!" passages.

But as an outsider, it is clear to me in a way that it is apparently not clear to them that, if their claim that the Bible was written (or "divinely inspired") by God Himself, then it is a shocking omission for this God Himself to be dictating a list of Things Not To Do™ that includes blending fibers, eating pork or shellfish, having sex with your own gender, speaking in certain unacceptable ways, working more than six days a week, allowing freedom of religion in your country, and so on and so on... but then to leave out "oh, and don't own humans like your neighbors do".

It's especially shocking that "God" omitted this, given the made-up "origins myth" scriptural history of the Hebrews that includes a terrible, torturous few centuries spent in slavery, themselves. "Since you know it sucks to be owned, you will not own people, yourselves" seems a pretty obvious command from on high.

But no, we get "Cut your foreskins off", but not "Don't own people". It could have been that simple, but it's not there.

That's why they have to do this bizarre (and dishonest) tapdance about what slavery really is, and what the Bible actually says about it... and ignore what it doesn't say.

This biblical omission is a great point you bring up RS, I will use that as an argument that the bible is not inspired because of it's shocking omissions compared to what got the commandment treatment.

1. Keep the Sabbath, but no ban on slavery.

2. Don't use god's name in vain, but no ban on pedophilia.

4. Don't boil a baby goat in it's mother's milk, but no ban on animal cruelty, in fact this god likes animal sacrifice. Facepalm

5. Don't covet your neighbor's property, but no ban on treating women as property.

This might be a more damning way of illustrating the arbitrary, ridiculous and man-made nature of this book than entire novels explaining how it fails scientifically.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-03-2017, 12:46 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(21-03-2017 02:10 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Yup. "I was wrong" is not a phrase that comes easy to some.

I used to know someone who was an habitual liar. He'd make outrageous claims, that even he knew weren't true, but once he'd said them he'd never back down. He'd pile lie onto lie to avoid ever having to admit a mistake. I don't know how I ever put up with him to be honest.

WAIT, YOU KNEW DONALD TRUMP??!!

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-03-2017, 04:13 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
It was going to happen anyways by man's free will. Let me ask you this do you ask your self these questions before you ask me?
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21-03-2017, 04:29 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(21-03-2017 04:13 PM)socialistview Wrote:  It was going to happen anyways by man's free will. Let me ask you this do you ask your self these questions before you ask me?

1. What the fuck are you talking about?
2. Who the fuck are you asking?
3. The answer is prolly yes, I do ask myself many questions about myself. That I am an introspective person is readily apparent, I often hear comments about it. Because when you are an introspective person, it shows. And when you are not, it also shows.

Whether you realize it or not, you give far more of yourself away when you speak than you ever intend to. You could tap into this by learning how to listen.

"The quieter you become, the more you can hear." Ram Dass

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-03-2017, 05:30 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(21-03-2017 04:13 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Let me ask you this do you ask your self these questions before you ask me?

If you think anybody here is actually asking you for their own information you are even more deluded than I thought.

We've actually thought about this stuff. You should try it. Thinking is a habit that is good for you.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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21-03-2017, 05:48 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Give me better questions then.
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