Logic vs. Theism
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06-03-2017, 02:14 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Hello again! Big Grin

Still looking forwards to yourself reading my mind, as it were. Thumbsup

(06-03-2017 02:06 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  Yes, that is my view. But I would leave out the word "utterly" because the more similar people's minds are, the more their truth will overlap.

So... Consider ... how do you tell when people's minds 'Over lap', I wonder?
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06-03-2017, 02:17 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:14 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  So... Consider ... how do you tell when people's minds 'Over lap', I wonder?

That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that people with a lot in common do tend to share a lot of truth. And this is one of functions of religion, to provide a shared narrative and shared rituals and experiences to provide a shared basis of truth.
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06-03-2017, 02:21 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:17 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 02:14 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  So... Consider ... how do you tell when people's minds 'Over lap', I wonder?

That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that people with a lot in common do tend to share a lot of truth. And this is one of functions of religion, to provide a shared narrative and shared rituals and experiences to provide a shared basis of truth.

So the Argumentum ad Populum isn't a logical fallacy, rather it's the basis of truth? Consider

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06-03-2017, 02:23 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:06 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 01:59 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  My definition of truth is the non-contradictory identification of reality. But since you reject the law of identity and thus the law of non-contradiction, I'm guessing you won't like my definition. But then this could only mean that on your view truth is utterly subjective. Is this your view?

Yes, that is my view. But I would leave out the word "utterly" because the more similar people's minds are, the more their truth will overlap.

Also note that this is the view of the Old Testament which I follow.

Thank you for answering that question honestly fschmidt. One more question? Does the Old Testament affirm that everything was created by God by an act of will?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-03-2017, 02:24 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So the Argumentum ad Populum isn't a logical fallacy, rather it's the basis of truth? Consider

Not at all. Nothing I said supports this.
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06-03-2017, 02:29 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:14 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello again! Big Grin

Still looking forwards to yourself reading my mind, as it were. Thumbsup

(06-03-2017 02:06 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  Yes, that is my view. But I would leave out the word "utterly" because the more similar people's minds are, the more their truth will overlap.

So... Consider ... how do you tell when people's minds 'Over lap', I wonder?

That's a good question since he affirms that ideas in the mind have no correspondence with anything in reality and thus have no objective meaning and therefore are impossible to communicate. I guess mental telepathy is the only option.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-03-2017, 02:32 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:24 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 02:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So the Argumentum ad Populum isn't a logical fallacy, rather it's the basis of truth? Consider

Not at all. Nothing I said supports this.

How so? Your truth is subjective, is it not?

Plus...

What is relevant is that people with a lot in common do tend to share a lot of truth. And this is one of functions of religion, to provide a shared narrative and shared rituals and experiences to provide a shared basis of truth.

The narrative and rituals and experiences are created by the religion, to foster the religion as true; the truth of the religion derives from those who believe in it.

I mean, I have just as much authority as the Pope, but there are just a lot less people who agree with me. Most Catholics would not accept the truth of my statement because they hold to a different truth, a common one that they share with each other and pass on through a shared narrative and rituals. How is yours different? Consider

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06-03-2017, 02:33 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:23 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Thank you for answering that question honestly fschmidt. One more question? Does the Old Testament affirm that everything was created by God by an act of will?

No. In Exodus 3:13-14, God refuses to be defined. So assigning the attribute of will to God isn't right. However the Old Testament repeatedly uses personification to describe things. For example Wisdom and Folly are personified as women in Proverbs 8-9. This is a natural result of Biblical Hebrew which mostly contains concrete words, not many abstract words. So ideas are best expressed as analogies, and the best analogies for many concepts are to encapsulate the concept into a person.
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06-03-2017, 02:37 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:29 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  That's a good question since he affirms that ideas in the mind have no correspondence with anything in reality and thus have no objective meaning and therefore are impossible to communicate. I guess mental telepathy is the only option.

You are just ridiculing what you don't understand (unfortunately a common practice among atheists). What communication does is to produce mental resonance based on the shared aspects of minds. If 2 minds had nothing in common, then they couldn't communicate.
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06-03-2017, 02:45 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:33 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 02:23 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Thank you for answering that question honestly fschmidt. One more question? Does the Old Testament affirm that everything was created by God by an act of will?

No. In Exodus 3:13-14, God refuses to be defined. So assigning the attribute of will to God isn't right. However the Old Testament repeatedly uses personification to describe things. For example Wisdom and Folly are personified as women in Proverbs 8-9. This is a natural result of Biblical Hebrew which mostly contains concrete words, not many abstract words. So ideas are best expressed as analogies, and the best analogies for many concepts are to encapsulate the concept into a person.

So God has no will? That would seem to contradict God having a plan. It was not its will to create it just did it mindlessly. Genesis says that god spoke and, poof, the universe came into existence but now you're telling us that God's words had no will behind them. Interesting.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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