Logic vs. Theism
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22-03-2017, 04:36 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Who said math dictated the world!?
A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics?

You said:

Quote:The fact that all observable existence can be perfectly defined with mathematics.

It is not perfectly defined with mathematics, and if it is "defined" with mathematics, then that is proscriptive, not descriptive.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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22-03-2017, 04:50 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:36 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Who said math dictated the world!?
A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics?

You said:

Quote:The fact that all observable existence can be perfectly defined with mathematics.

It is not perfectly defined with mathematics, and if it is "defined" with mathematics, then that is proscriptive, not descriptive.
I already said I had misspoken there.

All readily observable existence can be perfectly described mathematically. If that isn't the same as it being mathematically definable then I misspoke.

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22-03-2017, 04:51 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They don't equate to evidence of a cause to existence or order?
Maybe not to someone blinded by their own animosity and motives.

How about somebody blinded by their personal delusions?

Quote:Let me explain something to you since I must have failed earlier. The coin toss is not based on chance at all. It is based on variables. The side it rests on before the toss- variable, force- variable, trajectory- variable, wind- variable, surroundings- variable. What else affects it? Gravity- constant, density of surface coin strikes- variable. Yeah....Uhm....not random, not chance, not coincidence.

You almost have a point there but the toss is also affected by minor changes in the amount of force applied, air currents, and other factors that are unpredictable and uncontrollable and are themselves affected by other forces and events that are unpredictable and uncontrollable. You can't replicate or predict the exact conditions of any toss so it is random for all intents and purposes.

Quote:A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics? You are way over your head little buddy.

Again, you have that ass-backwards. The universe does not obey the rules of mathematics. The rules of mathematics are intentionally defined to mirror the way the universe works.

Quote:The proof of GOD is literally within everything to me personally.

Your delusional interpretations are irrelevant.

Quote:I just hastily noted a few points that I know to be undeniable.

All of which are quite deniable.

Quote:While they don't prove anything; to deny that they insinuate a cause to existence and an observable order, and that these things don't also lean towards intelligent design is intellectual dishonesty to me but, well....OK.

You accusing others of intellectual dishonesty? Laughat

(22-03-2017 04:32 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Define GOD in. A falsifiable manner.

Do you realize this is a fallacy?

No, it isn't. It is the basic starting point for any discussion of whether it exists or not. If you can't define it then you are literally talking about nothing.

Quote:How would you presume to define a thing that caused all existence when you can't even define the laws that bind existence?

You don't need to understand all the details of a creation to identify the creator. You do have to be able to define what you are talking about.

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22-03-2017, 04:56 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:51 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics? You are way over your head little buddy.

Again, you have that ass-backwards. The universe does not obey the rules of mathematics. The rules of mathematics are intentionally defined to mirror the way the universe works.

I'll try an analogy... isn't it amazing that so many major rivers tend to follow country and state borders? Obviously whoever designed the rivers knew where they'd be needed.

Consider

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22-03-2017, 05:04 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
I got an analogy too, one really good for comparing with math....

"Isn't it amazing how this piece of paper matches the definition of the word paper?"

I don't know if you're aware pops, but math is a language, and there's more than 1 way to reach an answer in math, often there's more than one "right" way even. I knew a guy I think he was literally a math genius, he would invent his own equations on the fly that would work with each problem. It took a very smart math teacher to show him WHY we use the set equations we do, simply put his equations might get the right answer in one specific situation, but it wouldn't hold true in every situation. My friends simply wasn't the best possible way to do it. But he had a deep understanding of the principles behind math, allowing him to invent his own equations. With some effort and time and more training he maybe could create new math, like how calculus was created, and that's amazing to me.

The problem for you is that you don't understand how math works, why it works, or even what it is. to be fair it might not be your fault. If you've never gone to college you've prolly never had a math teacher that had any understanding of these concepts either. In my opinion almost every math teacher out there lacks the qualifications to teach the subject, because they don't understand the philosophy behind math.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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22-03-2017, 05:31 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 04:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Problem is they don't equate to any evidence, as there is no compelling evidence for your god.

And your claim on coin tosses is entirely baseless. Again math describes the world does not dictate it, so any plea to statistical likelihoods isn't evidence in your corner. Also no mathematician would agree with you even if you attempted to go that route.

Your points lean towards nothing, literally, nothing. IF your god existed the evidence would be clear an overwhelming based on the claims made by your religion. The fact that you have to stretch so far to make the odd pieces kinda almost fit your narrative is evidence that you're full of shit. There's a word for people who do things like this, charlatan.

They don't equate to evidence of a cause to existence or order?
Maybe not to someone blinded by their own animosity and motives.

Let me explain something to you since I must have failed earlier. The coin toss is not based on chance at all. It is based on variables. The side it rests on before the toss- variable, force- variable, trajectory- variable, wind- variable, surroundings- variable. What else affects it? Gravity- constant, density of surface coin strikes- variable. Yeah....Uhm....not random, not chance, not coincidence.

Try again.

Who said math dictated the world!?
A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics? You are way over your head little buddy.

If GOD was real the evidence would be overwhelming based on what claims made by what religion? Citation needed.

I have to stretch no thing whatsoever. The proof of GOD is literally within everything to me personally. I just hastily noted a few points that I know to be undeniable. While they don't prove anything; to deny that they insinuate a cause to existence and an observable order, and that these things don't also lean towards intelligent design is intellectual dishonesty to me but, well....OK.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

They don't equate to literally anything in any way.

Also, again fuck you. I'm hold no animosity towards anyone, not even you. Fucking jackass. This is just how I talk, if you want me to explain why I have an ethical objection to people who perpetuate 16th century class warfare as some "sin" made up by the churches I can go into it for you.

The bible defines "bad" words as taking the "lords" name in vain, since I don't believe him fuck his name, I'm not scared of an imaginary friend. The bible also says that calling someone "you fool" places you in the danger of hell.... Well I don't believe in hell either so what the fuck ever, you're an idiot and its clear to everyone. It's important someone tells you or you'll never know.

Christians as usual take the bibles message and gets it all fucking ass backwards making a list of words that are "bad" they can diminish or harm others with their words all day long as long as they avoid using " the bad words" totally against the message in their holy book, would be amazing to meet a christian who actually bothered to read the bible (Oh wait, I have, they are all Atheists now).

But no, I don't even hold malice for my drunk ass dad. I'm not stupid enough to hug him, he might shoot me. But I live my life, true to my ethics, and holding grudges or hating people just isn't a part of who I am.

So fuck you dude.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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22-03-2017, 05:33 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
@Kernel Sohcahtoa is it ok if I call you Kernel 32?

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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22-03-2017, 06:16 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:11 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 02:52 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Called it!

Yay me.

Big Grin
Play dumb... It's OK.

Maybe you didn't notice the first verse was from the OT.

And no you cannot love and enslave someone. That just isn't how love works.
...

In my experience / observation, that's almost always how love works.

And yes, I know about Levi 19. It's the verse I quote when faced with the "no but the OT doesn't count anymore" argument.

Throw out the old and you've undermined the new.

Drinking Beverage

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22-03-2017, 06:47 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 04:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Problem is they don't equate to any evidence, as there is no compelling evidence for your god.

And your claim on coin tosses is entirely baseless. Again math describes the world does not dictate it, so any plea to statistical likelihoods isn't evidence in your corner. Also no mathematician would agree with you even if you attempted to go that route.

Your points lean towards nothing, literally, nothing. IF your god existed the evidence would be clear an overwhelming based on the claims made by your religion. The fact that you have to stretch so far to make the odd pieces kinda almost fit your narrative is evidence that you're full of shit. There's a word for people who do things like this, charlatan.

They don't equate to evidence of a cause to existence or order?
Maybe not to someone blinded by their own animosity and motives.

Let me explain something to you since I must have failed earlier. The coin toss is not based on chance at all. It is based on variables. The side it rests on before the toss- variable, force- variable, trajectory- variable, wind- variable, surroundings- variable. What else affects it? Gravity- constant, density of surface coin strikes- variable. Yeah....Uhm....not random, not chance, not coincidence.

Try again.

Who said math dictated the world!?
A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics? You are way over your head little buddy.

If GOD was real the evidence would be overwhelming based on what claims made by what religion? Citation needed.

I have to stretch no thing whatsoever. The proof of GOD is literally within everything to me personally. I just hastily noted a few points that I know to be undeniable. While they don't prove anything; to deny that they insinuate a cause to existence and an observable order, and that these things don't also lean towards intelligent design is intellectual dishonesty to me but, well....OK.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

More stolen concepts and now character attacks. If we don't agree with you it's because we're blind is it? It's not because your assertions are fallacious. That couldn't be it, no.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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22-03-2017, 06:57 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 04:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Problem is they don't equate to any evidence, as there is no compelling evidence for your god.

And your claim on coin tosses is entirely baseless. Again math describes the world does not dictate it, so any plea to statistical likelihoods isn't evidence in your corner. Also no mathematician would agree with you even if you attempted to go that route.

Your points lean towards nothing, literally, nothing. IF your god existed the evidence would be clear an overwhelming based on the claims made by your religion. The fact that you have to stretch so far to make the odd pieces kinda almost fit your narrative is evidence that you're full of shit. There's a word for people who do things like this, charlatan.

They don't equate to evidence of a cause to existence or order?
Maybe not to someone blinded by their own animosity and motives.

Let me explain something to you since I must have failed earlier. The coin toss is not based on chance at all. It is based on variables. The side it rests on before the toss- variable, force- variable, trajectory- variable, wind- variable, surroundings- variable. What else affects it? Gravity- constant, density of surface coin strikes- variable. Yeah....Uhm....not random, not chance, not coincidence.

Try again.

Who said math dictated the world!?
A wasn't making a plea to statistical anything. So a mathematician wouldn't agree with me that all readily observable existence is too perfectly described with mathematics? You are way over your head little buddy.

If GOD was real the evidence would be overwhelming based on what claims made by what religion? Citation needed.

I have to stretch no thing whatsoever. The proof of GOD is literally within everything to me personally. I just hastily noted a few points that I know to be undeniable. While they don't prove anything; to deny that they insinuate a cause to existence and an observable order, and that these things don't also lean towards intelligent design is intellectual dishonesty to me but, well....OK.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

> So, how do YOU define God? Describe his attributes. Do you believe that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent? Consider
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