Logic vs. Theism
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22-03-2017, 09:08 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 08:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 06:57 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > So, how do YOU define God? Describe his attributes. Do you believe that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent? Consider
Yes I do. Though I do not deny the freedom of man to bring terrible things upon themselves, nor do I believe this life is to be clung to or blissful/ painless, though it is still a grand magnificent gift.

It is so very difficult to describe GOD. I will try. It would be reasonable to start at my personal experience so I would say benevolent, merciful, all powerful, omniscient, edifying, just, all encompassing, subtle, and profound.

I believe the selfless conscience to be intricately tied to the spirit of life and GOD. I believe that same essence to be in all creation, formation, or existence, more so in animate objects rather than those seemingly lifeless ones, and perhaps more so in more complex life than in simple organisms. I believe that energy cannot be destroyed and that similarly we or rather that same spirit or essence of life does not extinguish at death exactly, but will eventually return to its source.(This is not a conventional belief in heaven or hell.) Everything being formed at least partially of the essence of GOD is all potentially connected to GOD and everything else. What can be known of GOD can be known through the understanding of unmolested sacred texts and the negation of wants of self and/or some significant fall and need of help, which was in my case due to extensive retrospect and introspection. I'm sorry; rambling.

Words do not do justice to GOD in describing it. I literally cannot express it in its fullness.

If you ask a detail I can try and go into it that way.

I do apologise.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

> And what do you have beyond all that woo? How do you differentiate between your alleged experiences of God and mere delusion?
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22-03-2017, 09:09 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 09:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 09:01 PM)JesseB Wrote:  You can take your evidence and shove it up your ass, no one with a brain would buy your personal experience. Claiming to have been an Atheist isn't lending you credibility.

Man brings suffering on himself? Not according to your god.




ugh... you're other points have been debunked in front of you several times and you are just too thick to acknowledge it. Unlike you, I hate repeating myself.
Not gonna be watching any vids. And don't worry about the whole wasting your time thing; I'm right their with yah buddy.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

Awwww, that's too bad. It's really quite funny. Just takes the logical conclusions of what would happen if humans refused to eat from the tree of knowledge in the garden of eden. Just as a method to show that if the bible story were literally true, well then god created a scenario where he HAD to force humans to sin. The concept is sound regardless of how you look at it. There's many other ways to say the same thing, humans aren't at fault for sin, because god requires it. In other words, he's a dick.

It's a youtube video, so its not like it's bad or anything. Just sayin.....

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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22-03-2017, 09:17 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 08:30 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 07:14 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  All readily observable existence can be perfectly described mathematically?

That's a falsifiable statement, again, we are dealing with OBSERVABLE discrepancies between what we mathematically predict and what we observe. (Dark matter and energy) Since that is one of your so-called reasons for the existence of an alleged creator, I can accept that and say that it is false, your reason for belief has been falsified.

Very good, I'm glad we can agree that even your own points of belief can be used to falsify the idea of a creator.

BTW-Even if I accept this creator hypothesis, then what? Can you make any positive and falsifiable claims as to the specific characteristics of this alleged creator?

How about this claim- if a creator does exist, it does not influence the universe in any way, it set forth the laws with which the universe operates and does not influence it in any way.

It does not care or even know who you are and will not influence your life in any way. It will be indistinguishable from a deity that is simply non-existent.

The evidence for this is: The universe is not designed with humans as the focus or the reason for the universe, there is no evidence for a reason for the universe.

This is reflected in our minuscule place in the universe and our minuscule place in the history of Earth, we are only one of multiple species of humans that have existed on this planet, the neanderthals contemplated their existence even before humans did, yet they went extinct.

Humans do not have a special seat at the table of creation.

[Image: you-are-here_2.png]
Yay!

You are basing that off of equations that were formulated using inadequate telescopes. Nice try. I said readily observable. That doesn't apply to theories or things that weren't readily observable when formulations were made, which are found to be inaccurate only after superior observatory equipment is employed. Y'all think y'all are so slick. What's sad is the masses fall for stuff, be it from a proclaimed believer or a proclaimed atheist.

We do not agree on any false attempted point you fraudulently posed.

Your claim that the deistic view is correct is easily refuted by my personal experience of GOD that turned me from atheism. But still;

One to two trillion galaxies but we are the only observable advanced life!

Over a trillion galaxies, but so far only one Terraforma! Not unique at all....I agree.

Man has complete dominion over the earth to the point that we risk the viability of the future generations, but we aren't for any purpose nor have any significance.

So your uhm claim; why would a creator make a thing that they didn't care about?

If you made a baby would you care about it?

Does a child who stacks some blocks generally care if another knocks it down; at least while their attention is on it?

Do ants that build up a community care about that community? Do they defend it with all their being?

So again; why would a thing be made yet not cared about? [consider]


peace


faith in selfless unity for good

I see, if we had adequate telescopes then we could make the perfect equation and THAT would be the "perfect" mathematical description. Facepalm

Keep moving those goalposts sparky.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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22-03-2017, 09:19 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
I'd honestly enjoy a reasonable decent conversation with a theist... These nutjobs just don't put any effort in, it's kinda boring.

Do they always troll this forum in such numbers? or is right now like some special season where they crawl out of the woodwork?

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23-03-2017, 03:02 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 09:19 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I'd honestly enjoy a reasonable decent conversation with a theist... These nutjobs just don't put any effort in, it's kinda boring.

Do they always troll this forum in such numbers? or is right now like some special season where they crawl out of the woodwork?

Number is more or less the same I think. Maybe on of sciency types can think of some plausible explanation, some Trollton first law.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-03-2017, 04:43 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 09:19 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I'd honestly enjoy a reasonable decent conversation with a theist... These nutjobs just don't put any effort in, it's kinda boring.

Do they always troll this forum in such numbers? or is right now like some special season where they crawl out of the woodwork?

This is par for the course, it gets even more interesting when they have a meltdown and start making threats.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-03-2017, 05:36 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 07:39 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  If my assertions are full of holes then display the holes for all to see.

Not having a shred of evidence for any of your claims is a gaping hole that is quite obviosu to everybody but you.

Quote:If you think there is no cause for all of known existence then you have a problem; yes. Is the big bang not a cause even if only a theory?

Who said there was no cause? You constantly misread what people are saying and it is getting very old. We say we don't know yet if there was a cause or not. You claim there was and that you have information about it and yet you have no evidence. Here's a good rule of thumb: claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

The big bang is NOT a cause of the universe, it IS the universe. It is a description of the earliest state of the universe that our understanding of physics can identify. You have no clue what you are talking about. Again.


(22-03-2017 08:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yes I do. Though I do not deny the freedom of man to bring terrible things upon themselves, nor do I believe this life is to be clung to or blissful/ painless, though it is still a grand magnificent gift.
<more pointless blatherings>

What you personally believe is beyond irrelevant. What you can demonstrate to be true is all that counts.

(22-03-2017 08:30 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You are basing that off of equations that were formulated using inadequate telescopes. Nice try. I said readily observable. That doesn't apply to theories or things that weren't readily observable when formulations were made, which are found to be inaccurate only after superior observatory equipment is employed. Y'all think y'all are so slick. What's sad is the masses fall for stuff, be it from a proclaimed believer or a proclaimed atheist.

We base our beliefs on the best available evidence. When better evidence is found we revise our beliefs. That's being rational. Try it sometime.

Quote:Your claim that the deistic view is correct is easily refuted by my personal experience of GOD that turned me from atheism.

You had an experience. You believe it involved a god. That belief is unsupported and irrational. You need help pops. Get some.

Quote:One to two trillion galaxies but we are the only observable advanced life!

Over a trillion galaxies, but so far only one Terraforma! Not unique at all....I agree.

Man has complete dominion over the earth to the point that we risk the viability of the future generations, but we aren't for any purpose nor have any significance.

Don't you ever get tired of repeating the same crap? We are the only "advanced life" that we have observed because our ability to observe other planets is stilll limited. From thw evidence we have it is INCREDIBLY arrogant to assume that we are, in fact, the only advanced life in the universe but that's typical theistic thinking.

We do NOT have "complete dominion" over the earth, that's just another one of your arrogant beliefs. Even if we did, the ability to destory the biosphere on earth does not in any way imply that we have a purpose or are in any way significant. The earth, and the life on it, is about as insignificant as anything can be in relation to the universe. You'de see that if you weren't such an arrogant, obnoxious asshole.

Quote:Does a child who stacks some blocks generally care if another knocks it down; at least while their attention is on it?

Nice to see you admit that your god concept is akin to a petulant child.

Quote:Do ants that build up a community care about that community? Do they defend it with all their being?

Do they care? I doubt they have that capacity. Do they defend it? Yes. The fact that you can't evaluate things for what they are without imposing your personal interpretation on them says a lot about your level of ignorance.


(22-03-2017 09:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Not gonna be watching any vids.

Yeah, wouldn't want to take the chance that something might break through that wall and you might learn something.

Quote:And don't worry about the whole wasting your time thing; I'm right their with yah buddy.

You are free to leave any time. When you do, get some help. You need it. Desperately.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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23-03-2017, 05:38 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 09:19 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I'd honestly enjoy a reasonable decent conversation with a theist... These nutjobs just don't put any effort in, it's kinda boring.

Do they always troll this forum in such numbers? or is right now like some special season where they crawl out of the woodwork?

It's all sporadic, sometimes it's quiet, sometimes we get one or two, and sometimes we get an army. There really is no telling beforehand.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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23-03-2017, 05:39 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 09:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 09:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Not gonna be watching any vids. And don't worry about the whole wasting your time thing; I'm right their with yah buddy.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

Awwww, that's too bad. It's really quite funny. Just takes the logical conclusions of what would happen if humans refused to eat from the tree of knowledge in the garden of eden. Just as a method to show that if the bible story were literally true, well then god created a scenario where he HAD to force humans to sin. The concept is sound regardless of how you look at it. There's many other ways to say the same thing, humans aren't at fault for sin, because god requires it. In other words, he's a dick.

It's a youtube video, so its not like it's bad or anything. Just sayin.....
Oh....GOD required man to sin?

How do you figure? In your own words please.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good
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23-03-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 09:19 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I'd honestly enjoy a reasonable decent conversation with a theist... These nutjobs just don't put any effort in, it's kinda boring.

Do they always troll this forum in such numbers? or is right now like some special season where they crawl out of the woodwork?

It often seems that they come in waves. Pops has a history here and it isn't a good one. He tends to post for a short time and then just lurk for a while before surfacing again. You should go back and read some of his early stuff. It's... disturbing.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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