Logic vs. Theism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-03-2017, 05:44 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 05:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 09:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Awwww, that's too bad. It's really quite funny. Just takes the logical conclusions of what would happen if humans refused to eat from the tree of knowledge in the garden of eden. Just as a method to show that if the bible story were literally true, well then god created a scenario where he HAD to force humans to sin. The concept is sound regardless of how you look at it. There's many other ways to say the same thing, humans aren't at fault for sin, because god requires it. In other words, he's a dick.

It's a youtube video, so its not like it's bad or anything. Just sayin.....
Oh....GOD required man to sin?

How do you figure? In your own words please.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

I suppose the example would be: Why create beings with free will and then put something in this supposed Eden with them, that they can't touch?

If God was happy with his creations, walking about in their fig leaves and doing whatever it is they did, he/she/it could just NOT have put the tree of knowledge in there, for Man to eat from?

God would have to be a pretty big asshole to purposely put something in there, most likely fully well knowing that saying "hey yo, don't eat from that tree mate....oh by the way I'm just popping out for a bit..." and then wondering why they went and ate from it lol.

"I don't do magic, Morty, I do science. One takes brains, the other takes dark eye liner" - Rick
I now sell T-Shirts Here! Please Check it out Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes OakTree500's post
23-03-2017, 06:01 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 05:44 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 05:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Oh....GOD required man to sin?

How do you figure? In your own words please.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

I suppose the example would be: Why create beings with free will and then put something in this supposed Eden with them, that they can't touch?

If God was happy with his creations, walking about in their fig leaves and doing whatever it is they did, he/she/it could just NOT have put the tree of knowledge in there, for Man to eat from?

God would have to be a pretty big asshole to purposely put something in there, most likely fully well knowing that saying "hey yo, don't eat from that tree mate....oh by the way I'm just popping out for a bit..." and then wondering why they went and ate from it lol.
Adam and Eve where deceived of them selves. Did GOD know it would happen? Of course. Does that make GOD unjust? No. Man is responsible for their direction. If we didn't have freedom then we would be prisoners basically. I do not exactly conform to the doctrine of original sin but find that man has potential for good and evil.... Naturally.

faith in selfless unity for good
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(22-03-2017 04:11 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 02:52 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Called it!

Yay me.

Big Grin
Play dumb... It's OK.

Maybe you didn't notice the first verse was from the OT.

And no you cannot love and enslave someone. That just isn't how love works.

Isn't that how god's "love" works? Worship me or suffer eternally?

faith in selfless unity for good
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kemo boy's post
23-03-2017, 06:07 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 06:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 05:44 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I suppose the example would be: Why create beings with free will and then put something in this supposed Eden with them, that they can't touch?

If God was happy with his creations, walking about in their fig leaves and doing whatever it is they did, he/she/it could just NOT have put the tree of knowledge in there, for Man to eat from?

God would have to be a pretty big asshole to purposely put something in there, most likely fully well knowing that saying "hey yo, don't eat from that tree mate....oh by the way I'm just popping out for a bit..." and then wondering why they went and ate from it lol.
Adam and Eve where deceived of them selves. Did GOD know it would happen? Of course. Does that make GOD unjust? No. Man is responsible for their direction. If we didn't have freedom then we would be prisoners basically. I do not exactly conform to the doctrine of original sin but find that man has potential for good and evil.... Naturally.

faith in selfless unity for good
Ok, the part in bold:

I have a 7 year old daughter. For example, If I set small explosive device in the house, with a huge big red button on it and, [without telling her what it is], say "don't touch this, I'm just going out for a bit", I would say there is a 99% chance she would press it and destroy the house. The point of this is, who is held responsible for the above actions? Me, because I orchestrated the circumstances, and knew the outcome the entire time.

So God KNEW by doing something, that man would eat from the tree and create the sin? Therefore, why would he do that unless he NEEDS sin in the first place? Man has free will, which is awesome, but why would a god(s) give us this and then kick off when we do something "wrong?" . Just seems backwardly stupid to me.

"I don't do magic, Morty, I do science. One takes brains, the other takes dark eye liner" - Rick
I now sell T-Shirts Here! Please Check it out Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like OakTree500's post
23-03-2017, 06:08 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 06:05 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 04:11 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Play dumb... It's OK.

Maybe you didn't notice the first verse was from the OT.

And no you cannot love and enslave someone. That just isn't how love works.

Isn't that how god's "love" works? Worship me or suffer eternally?

faith in selfless unity for good
No.

The worship of GOD is for the sake of creation. Not the other way around.

faith in selfless unity for good
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2017, 06:10 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 06:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 05:44 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I suppose the example would be: Why create beings with free will and then put something in this supposed Eden with them, that they can't touch?

If God was happy with his creations, walking about in their fig leaves and doing whatever it is they did, he/she/it could just NOT have put the tree of knowledge in there, for Man to eat from?

God would have to be a pretty big asshole to purposely put something in there, most likely fully well knowing that saying "hey yo, don't eat from that tree mate....oh by the way I'm just popping out for a bit..." and then wondering why they went and ate from it lol.
Adam and Eve where deceived of them selves. Did GOD know it would happen? Of course. Does that make GOD unjust? No. Man is responsible for their direction. If we didn't have freedom then we would be prisoners basically. I do not exactly conform to the doctrine of original sin but find that man has potential for good and evil.... Naturally.

faith in selfless unity for good

> On the contrary. God created imperfect beings, knowing full well that his creations would fail, making him criminally negligent. He punished them for behaving exactly the way he designed them to behave, making him unfair and unjust.

> Even if your God existed, he is beneath what I consider to be a moral being.

> By the way, you still haven't explained how you differentiate your "experiences" of God from mere delusions.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Gwaithmir's post
23-03-2017, 06:14 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 06:08 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 06:05 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  
No.

The worship of GOD is for the sake of creation. Not the other way around.

faith in selfless unity for good

Makes no sense. Surprise.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kemo boy's post
23-03-2017, 06:16 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 06:07 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 06:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Adam and Eve where deceived of them selves. Did GOD know it would happen? Of course. Does that make GOD unjust? No. Man is responsible for their direction. If we didn't have freedom then we would be prisoners basically. I do not exactly conform to the doctrine of original sin but find that man has potential for good and evil.... Naturally.

faith in selfless unity for good
Ok, the part in bold:

I have a 7 year old daughter. For example, If I set small explosive device in the house, with a huge big red button on it and, [without telling her what it is], say "don't touch this, I'm just going out for a bit", I would say there is a 99% chance she would press it and destroy the house. The point of this is, who is held responsible for the above actions? Me, because I orchestrated the circumstances, and knew the outcome the entire time.

So God KNEW by doing something, that man would eat from the tree and create the sin? Therefore, why would he do that unless he NEEDS sin in the first place? Man has free will, which is awesome, but why would a god(s) give us this and then kick off when we do something "wrong?" . Just seems backwardly stupid to me.
Kick off? Could you reword please?

I'm not attempting to divert, and the subject matter is definitely worth discussing. I'm just not getting what you are saying about kick off. I'm guessing you mean leave us to our own selves. So you are asking why GOD would instill freedom in us and too set temptation in front of us.

I believe it is how it must have been done. If we wouldn't have freedom then we would be prisoners. If we didn't have choices then we wouldn't have freedom. For freedom to choose to actually be a truth one must have both the ability to choose and options to decide upon.

Past that I would say that it was a means to an end, or rather the way for us to learn of our potential.

I do admit that the fall is my weakest area and that I am still learning.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2017, 06:19 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
Okay it's been like two days and I noticed a couple regulars haven't chimed in.

Noticed the name kemo boy and thought of banjo. Uhm...Where is banjo? I hope he is doing alright.



faith in selfless unity for good
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2017, 06:25 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(23-03-2017 06:16 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 06:07 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Ok, the part in bold:

I have a 7 year old daughter. For example, If I set small explosive device in the house, with a huge big red button on it and, [without telling her what it is], say "don't touch this, I'm just going out for a bit", I would say there is a 99% chance she would press it and destroy the house. The point of this is, who is held responsible for the above actions? Me, because I orchestrated the circumstances, and knew the outcome the entire time.

So God KNEW by doing something, that man would eat from the tree and create the sin? Therefore, why would he do that unless he NEEDS sin in the first place? Man has free will, which is awesome, but why would a god(s) give us this and then kick off when we do something "wrong?" . Just seems backwardly stupid to me.
Kick off? Could you reword please?

I'm not attempting to divert, and the subject matter is definitely worth discussing. I'm just not getting what you are saying about kick off. I'm guessing you mean leave us to our own selves. So you are asking why GOD would instill freedom in us and too set temptation in front of us.

I believe it is how it must have been done. If we wouldn't have freedom then we would be prisoners. If we didn't have choices then we wouldn't have freedom. For freedom to choose to actually be a truth one must have both the ability to choose and options to decide upon.

Past that I would say that it was a means to an end, or rather the way for us to learn of our potential.

I do admit that the fall is my weakest area and that I am still learning.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good
Ok, sorry, as that may be a word only used in the UK, but to "kick-off" is to be angry/shout at somebody.

Anyway, What I'm trying to say is, why create something and give it free will, then be surprised when we use our free will? And if god KNEW it would happen, whats the point? Like seriously just think for a second, why would 'God' create the earth and the universe, create this perfect paradise of 'Eden' where the animals talk, you have all the food you like, and there is the apparent feeling of no pain/suffereing, all to be thrown away when man eats from the tree of knowledge of good/evil..........which is something he KNEW would happen?

Can't you see how stupid that is? God creates the universe. God creates man, women, all plants and animals, and also creates a literal perfect habitat for them all, but gets pissed off when Man does something HE KNEW WOULD HAPPEN?

Facepalm

"I don't do magic, Morty, I do science. One takes brains, the other takes dark eye liner" - Rick
I now sell T-Shirts Here! Please Check it out Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like OakTree500's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: