Logic
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-10-2015, 09:31 PM
RE: Logic
(22-10-2015 07:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. I am waiting for those cute turtles.

For God's sake woman, I've showed you them many times.




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-10-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Logic
(22-10-2015 03:21 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 01:41 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are correct, most of the versions you cited do not add the comma.

In the beginning God created... everything we know. So which came first, the everything or God?

There is nothing disconnecting the notion that God could of created God along with everything/Heavens and Earth at the exact same time.

If God created everything we know, God has created... you know GOD, which is apart of everything we know(so far at least in the acceptance of your view there is a God.)

I would accept your premise apart from the logical difficulty of a thing creating itself. You might want to visit another thread where we are discussing the impossibility of random processes creating life.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-10-2015, 07:23 AM
RE: Logic
How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.

The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Valaista's post
28-10-2015, 08:09 AM
RE: Logic
(26-10-2015 07:23 AM)Valaista Wrote:  Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false.

Bare assertion.

(26-10-2015 07:23 AM)Valaista Wrote:  Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed.

They could not have always existed without any time to exist in.

The idea of existence without time is incoherent.

(26-10-2015 07:23 AM)Valaista Wrote:  The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time.

Time is a dimension.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 08:09 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 07:23 AM)Valaista Wrote:  Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false.

Bare assertion.

(26-10-2015 07:23 AM)Valaista Wrote:  Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed.

They could not have always existed without any time to exist in.

The idea of existence without time is incoherent.

(26-10-2015 07:23 AM)Valaista Wrote:  The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time.

Time is a dimension.
"...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." -Einstein

But he did believe in God as Creator of the Universe. Specifically, Einstein believed in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists," as shown below:

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony
of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and
actions of human beings." Upon being asked if he believed in God by
Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the Institutional Synagogue, New York,
April 24, 1921, Einstein: The Life and Times, Ronald W. Clark, Page
502.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 09:24 AM)Valaista Wrote:  "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." -Einstein

You know, it's funny. This quote gets dredged up out of the bowels of the internet quite often, and yet I have never seen a single person who is actually capable of providing a source.

Einstein never said any such thing. Whoever told you that he did is a liar.

(28-10-2015 09:24 AM)Valaista Wrote:  But he did believe in God as Creator of the Universe.

That's wonderful. It's also utterly worthless unless he could actually produce evidence to support this belief.

He could not.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: Logic
In special relativity, there is no absolute simultaneity of events. In one reference frame, two events may appear to happen at the same time. An observer on a speeding rocket ship, however, may observe one event happening before the other. Neither observer is “right” in this situation: This is simply the weirdness that special relativity entails. Many experiments have confirmed time dilation, such as the relativistic decay of muons from cosmic ray showers and the slowing of atomic clocks aboard a Space Shuttle relative to synchronized Earth-bound inertial clocks. The duration of time can therefore vary according to events and reference frames.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: Logic
(23-10-2015 11:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might want to visit another thread where we are discussing the impossibility of random processes creating life.

Well, it's a good thing the process wasn't random. It's called natural selection.

Change + replication + selection is not a random process, it is merely a mindless process. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
28-10-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 10:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  it is merely a mindless process. Drinking Beverage

So is Q's posting.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like itsnotmeitsyou's post
28-10-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 10:41 AM)Valaista Wrote:  In special relativity, there is no absolute simultaneity of events. In one reference frame, two events may appear to happen at the same time. An observer on a speeding rocket ship, however, may observe one event happening before the other. Neither observer is “right” in this situation: This is simply the weirdness that special relativity entails. Many experiments have confirmed time dilation, such as the relativistic decay of muons from cosmic ray showers and the slowing of atomic clocks aboard a Space Shuttle relative to synchronized Earth-bound inertial clocks. The duration of time can therefore vary according to events and reference frames.

And your point is...?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: