Logic
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28-10-2015, 01:11 PM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 09:30 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 09:24 AM)Valaista Wrote:  "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." -Einstein

You know, it's funny. This quote gets dredged up out of the bowels of the internet quite often, and yet I have never seen a single person who is actually capable of providing a source.

Einstein never said any such thing. Whoever told you that he did is a liar.

Liar is such a harsh term to be thrown around casually. So let me introduce to you the one and only Billy Shears. Tongue

Michele Besso

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28-10-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 01:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Liar is such a harsh term to be thrown around casually. So let me introduce to you the one and only Billy Shears. Tongue

Michele Besso

Also not sourced. Just claimed. As it is everywhere else.

Regardless, even if he did say it, it's quite clearly him being poetic rather than rigorously scientific, and even taken entirely at face value, it doesn't in any way support... whatever it is that Valaista is trying to convey with this incoherent nonsense.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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28-10-2015, 04:35 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2015 04:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 03:51 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 01:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Liar is such a harsh term to be thrown around casually. So let me introduce to you the one and only Billy Shears. Tongue

Michele Besso

Also not sourced. Just claimed. As it is everywhere else.

The letter of condolence to Besso's family is the source so I don't know what you mean by not sourced.

Do you need to see the long form of Einstein's condolence letter to the Bessos?

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28-10-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The letter of condolence to Besso's family is the source so I don't know what you mean by not sourced.

Would you like to see the long form of Einstein's condolence letter to the Bessos?

Well, yes. That's rather the point of sourcing things. A line in a Wikipedia article that doesn't link to an actual source is not particularly reliable.

(28-10-2015 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You one of those guys who just can't ever say "I'm wrong." out of principle?

I'm more than happy to admit that I'm wrong, but I need to see more than an unsourced claim from Wikipedia before I say so. Seeing as the quote doesn't appear to... well, appear in any actual, reputable sites or articles, the letter to Besso is not available anywhere online, and the websites that reference it are almost universally of the same caliber as "Learning to See Timelessness", I really don't see any evidence to back up the claim.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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28-10-2015, 04:59 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2015 05:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 04:49 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The letter of condolence to Besso's family is the source so I don't know what you mean by not sourced.

Would you like to see the long form of Einstein's condolence letter to the Bessos?

Well, yes. That's rather the point of sourcing things. A line in a Wikipedia article that doesn't link to an actual source is not particularly reliable.

I'm more than happy to admit that I'm wrong, but I need to see more than an unsourced claim from Wikipedia before I say so. Seeing as the quote doesn't appear to... well, appear in any actual, reputable sites or articles,

Does Stephen Hawking's "A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion - The Essential Scientific Works of Albert Einstein" count as reputable?

You know you can google this yourself instead of just blowing smoke out your ass.

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28-10-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Does Stephen Hawking's "A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion - The Essential Scientific Works of Albert Einstein" count as reputable?

It would, if it contained the quote. Can you show that it does?

(28-10-2015 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You know you can google this yourself instead of just blowing smoke out your ass.

I have. If you found the answer on Google, please link it.

I'm not blowing smoke out of anything. I'm asking for a source. If there is one, it should not be difficult to provide. Thus far, the best I have seen is an unsourced claim on Wikipedia and an oblique reference to a book which, to the best of my knowledge, also does not quote the letter.

If an actual source is provided, I will quite readily retract my objection, but thus far, no one has provided one.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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28-10-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 05:11 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I have. If you found the answer on Google, please link it.

You wade through the 12,400 hits that googling "einstein letter to besso family" yields.

(28-10-2015 05:11 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I'm not blowing smoke out of anything. I'm asking for a source. If there is one, it should not be difficult to provide.

The source is Einstein's condolence letter to the Bessos. If you choose not to accept it you will find yourself alone. Nobody disputes it but you. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion conspiracy theorist.

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29-10-2015, 07:23 AM
RE: Logic
(28-10-2015 05:11 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 04:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Does Stephen Hawking's "A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion - The Essential Scientific Works of Albert Einstein" count as reputable?

It would, if it contained the quote. Can you show that it does?

Ummm... does the title of the book count? Like, isn't "A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion" quoting the letter?
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29-10-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: Logic
I don't have the Hawking book, but I do have several other books that collect various writings of Einstein. I will check tonight and see if I can find that letter in one of them.
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29-10-2015, 06:45 PM
RE: Logic
(29-10-2015 09:58 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I don't have the Hawking book, but I do have several other books that collect various writings of Einstein. I will check tonight and see if I can find that letter in one of them.

I looked in Einstein's Ideas and Opinions, A.P. French's Einstein Centenary volume, the Clark and Pais biographies, and the Einstein volume in the Library of Living Philosophers. I did not find the letter in question, nor any mention of it. Of course, there are more comprehensive sources that I don't have, but I failed to find it in the ones I do have. FWIW.
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