London: Gender neutral messages
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16-07-2017, 05:08 PM
London: Gender neutral messages
So apparently, there will be gender neutral messages on public transport in London.
It will say things like "Everyone" instead of "Ladies and Gentlemen" and even change the pre-recorded messaging.

Now, while I personally don't care about the phrasing, as long as the needed information is coming across clearly "next stop xyz", there are people who are very happy about this change.
Also I think that it is a very nice (and expensive) thing to do, just to be more inclusive for all people.

So why am I so totally not surprised that Christians are bickering again?

Some articles of this announcement and relating to it:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/14/chr...41b85aaeb5

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/...ts-gender/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...ic-toilets

What do you think?

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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16-07-2017, 06:05 PM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
We never had gendered announcements on our subs or trains.

It was always something like next stop, blah,blah, blah or next stop terminal, everyone please leave the train.

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16-07-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
(16-07-2017 05:08 PM)Leerob Wrote:  ...
What do you think?

I have one concern...

My understanding of transgender is that through non-typical bio-chemistry during gestation, a child will be born with "the wrong body".

Similarly, there is the general acceptance of the genetic basis for homosexuality.

These are not choices.

"Gender-fluidity" implies choice... or at least might be perceived as choice.

Will acceptance that gender is a choice undermine the progress that has been made in regarding sex and/or sexual preference as not choices?

i.e. the Catholic Church's position of "love the sinner, hate the sin" is validated and those nut-bags who think homosexuals can be "saved" by "conversion therapy" will feel vindicated.

Consider

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16-07-2017, 06:28 PM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
(16-07-2017 05:08 PM)Leerob Wrote:  What do you think?

I think that no matter what you do in the public sphere, someone will object to it.
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16-07-2017, 06:30 PM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
I am starting to think we are going to have to resort to 'Hey you" to address people.

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16-07-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
(16-07-2017 06:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I am starting to think we are going to have to resort to 'Hey you" to address people.

Pfft, many teens already call everybody, dude, bro or yo no matter the gender, age or appearence. In fact these have been around for years.

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16-07-2017, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2017 11:03 PM by TheBear.)
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
I remember accidentally using a women's restroom in Japan. I was new to Japan and wasn't learned in Kanji, so I took a peek inside and saw some urinals. So I went in. Oddly, all the urinals were almost at ground level. I thought it odd and considered that the urinals were low because Japanese people were shorter? But really, these urinals were almost to the ground, and I'm not talking about the tall urinals. Anyway, mid-stream a Japanese woman walks in looks at me funny, then heads to a stall. I later found out that it was the social norm for mothers to bring their young boys to use the same restroom. Big Grin

I know - off topic. This topic just reminded me of that experience. Carry on....
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17-07-2017, 06:06 AM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
@DLJ: Fair point and as far as I have researched it you are very correct but can you please connect the dots as to why bio chemistry is important to subway announcements?

@Angie: I don't see a problem with "hey you" in general although it is maybe a bit to familiar to address a stranger. But I think I see your point. Question is, do we want to keep addressing physical facts about people or do we want to simply talk and include those in the conversation? Subway messaging really doesn't need to be gendered, it doesn't even have to be direct. Here is an example "Welcome to Manchester train station. On platform 1, the 10:30 to Sheffield" Did this message need to be directed at anybody in particular? See where I'm coming from?

As far as I understand, they just want to be inclusive for everybody and I think that is generally a nice thing and in this specific case it really has no negative effect on anybody. I think I have never called anybody a lady or a gentleman in a serious context anyway. Sure mr, mrs, when appropriate. And I have worked in customer service on the phone for a long time. You work with what you get. If I hear a voice that sounds male, I will say "Mr" by default because the vast majority of people who sound that way are male. If I make a mistake, I say sorry and move on.

So what, they say "Good afternoon everybody" instead of "Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen" *shrug* It is not just about genders I would suspect. A boy or a girl is neither a lady nor a gentleman either. The chav from next door isn't either. So everybody is included in this announcement. Stepping towards inclusion for all social classes, ages, genders, etc. At least that is how I understand what they are doing. I'd be surprised if the only reason is the LGBTQ+ people's feelings. It is probably more a decision about being politically correct and going with the times which have changed.
And for those who speak about it being respectful, as long as I don't curse at people and make their day a living hell, I would say I am being as respectful as I should to a stranger. So if I say "Hi" instead of "Good evening sir" that should suffice given that I speak to a stranger on the subway (this is a hypothetical scenario. I don't speak to strangers on the subway).

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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17-07-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
I note that a lot of our government forms/applications/licenses etc now have the following under the "SEX" question;

○ MALE
○ FEMALE
○ OTHER

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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17-07-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: London: Gender neutral messages
Apologies... double post.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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