Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-05-2016, 07:30 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 06:53 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 06:36 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Patronizing, aren't you? I am willing to believe anything that is supported by evidence. The level of evidence required for any given claim depends on how extraordinary the claim is.

Taking your 'experiment' for example, I'm quite open to the idea that following your instructions can lead people to "see" auras around objects. The actions you outline are similar to known techniques that lead to altered mental states and since you primed people to see auras that is not an unlikely outcome. I am not ready to believe that it is evidence of any external cause for the effect because nothing about it rules out purely internal causes. The evidence that people can think they see auras doesn't lead directly to any conclusion.

no bro , i never said aura.. i was forced into defining it so i said its "Like an aura"
And i agree it sounds patronizing , but maybe im showing you that sometimes we close ourselves a lot more than we realize , and its mostly a natural reaction
to something we absolutely disagree with. And that shield itself becomes the new cage.

Let me ask you one question that troubles me personally ..(im no fool i agree with science) ..i wanna know if all scientists are closed to the unseen ..and those who attempt at the unseen are psuedo's and discarded at surface level , how is it that anyone would pursue that aspect if it is of no concern. it is easy to discard auras by saying its an altered mental state , but what if entering a realm that lies outside 4 dimensions requires and altered state?

Nobody rules out being intrigued by things that might exist but which have not yet been proven. The point is that it makes no sense to believe something prematurely.

I am not saying that your conjectured realm does not exist, I am saying that assuming it does exist is not justified. Let's say that this "aura" effect that you describe can be reproduced pretty reliably... we have a few basic options:
a) it is simply an odd by-product of the way the brain works
b) it is evidence of a sense that we possess but do not normally use
c) it is evidence that we can interact with some kind of hitherto unknown, intangible realm

You seem to be wishing that option c is true. I'm saying that, based on what we do know about how our brains work, option a makes few, if any, assumptions and fully explains the "evidence" we have so it is reasonable to believe that is the case. Option b may be intriguing but involves more assumptions about what is going on so it would need more evidence. Option c involves assuming a radical re-definition of what is real and is therefore the least reasonable to accept as the likely answer.

I don't have any objection to anybody conjecturing about something "beyond" our known reality but if you want me to believe it is possible, let alone probable, then I need evidence that it explains things better than simpler explanations. There also needs to be reason to accept that the proposed explanation, or something like it, is necessary and not simply sufficient.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes unfogged's post
21-05-2016, 07:34 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 07:03 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 06:40 AM)unfogged Wrote:  What else would I base my beliefs on except good evidence? bad evidence? no evidence? That way madness lies.

By the way, assumptions are often implicit but, when recognized, need to be examined to see if they are valid. They certainly aren't a reasonable basis for forming a belief.

The actual trigger words in my statement were "Organized body" "Allows you" And "boundaries" . I hid them on purpose. its a shame i have to re trigger them directly.

Yes, I noted them but am not interested in playing your little games. Strawman definitions of the scientific methods do not deserve respect.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like unfogged's post
21-05-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 07:30 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I don't have any objection to anybody conjecturing about something "beyond" our known reality but if you want me to believe it is possible, let alone probable, then I need evidence that it explains things better than simpler explanations. There also needs to be reason to accept that the proposed explanation, or something like it, is necessary and not simply sufficient.

okay.

All i know is what was told,
All i think is what i know,
All i am is what i think,
All i know NOT is who I Am.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-05-2016, 07:54 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 07:22 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  This is all valid..what you say makes total sense , and i was afraid of this reply because honestly i do not have a good counter for how damaging woo woo has been. But the next thing im going to say now..you have to understand this with utmost positivity ..There is some awesome goodness untapped ..it is simply awesome..and that is what compels me to cajole you. I wish i could explain ..but i am willing to accept my defeat because the likely hood of bringing that awesome goodness is rare. And the likely hood of things going haywire is much higher so its better left untapped.

Afraid of this reply? Bro are you so desperate to convince people of your claim that despite knowing of objections to your ideas you try to avoid discussing those objections? That's hardly the mark of someone confident in their truth.

Please enlighten me, what "awesome goodness" do you have access to that I don't? Joy? Love? One-ness with the universe? Good fortune in financial matters?

ETA: Oh yeah, there's the good old favourite. Eternal life Smile As a prize for *belief*. Not for living a good life and being nice to one's fellow humans.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
21-05-2016, 08:09 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 07:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 07:22 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  This is all valid..what you say makes total sense , and i was afraid of this reply because honestly i do not have a good counter for how damaging woo woo has been. But the next thing im going to say now..you have to understand this with utmost positivity ..There is some awesome goodness untapped ..it is simply awesome..and that is what compels me to cajole you. I wish i could explain ..but i am willing to accept my defeat because the likely hood of bringing that awesome goodness is rare. And the likely hood of things going haywire is much higher so its better left untapped.

Afraid of this reply? Bro are you so desperate to convince people of your claim that despite knowing of objections to your ideas you try to avoid discussing those objections? That's hardly the mark of someone confident in their truth.

Please enlighten me, what "awesome goodness" do you have access to that I don't? Joy? Love? One-ness with the universe? Good fortune in financial matters?
The truth is i am not desperate , you are reading it so because of your own experiences in the past with others who are, i may see you desperate to disprove. My confidence is limited because i sail untested waters and i don't know beyond what i know. And my confidence is that i am willing to risk ridicule , no matter how unpleasant and shattering it can be.

All i know is what was told,
All i think is what i know,
All i am is what i think,
All i know NOT is who I Am.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-05-2016, 08:15 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 08:09 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  And my confidence is that i am willing to risk ridicule , no matter how unpleasant and shattering it can be.

Well you're clearly not that confident if you consciously avoid certain lines of argument. Rolleyes

You don't get a sweetie for risking ridicule amigo. Your truth is not truth. It's just assertion.

Please enlighten me, what's so awesome about your snake oil compared to every other salesman's snake oil?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
21-05-2016, 08:24 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 08:09 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 07:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  Afraid of this reply? Bro are you so desperate to convince people of your claim that despite knowing of objections to your ideas you try to avoid discussing those objections? That's hardly the mark of someone confident in their truth.

Please enlighten me, what "awesome goodness" do you have access to that I don't? Joy? Love? One-ness with the universe? Good fortune in financial matters?
The truth is i am not desperate , you are reading it so because of your own experiences in the past with others who are, i may see you desperate to disprove. My confidence is limited because i sail untested waters and i don't know beyond what i know. And my confidence is that i am willing to risk ridicule , no matter how unpleasant and shattering it can be.
Those objections are valid...so why would i fight them? its not that i am avoiding to fight ..they are valid lmao ..i said what you said made sense ..so ...wtf? why do expect me to fight something that i agree with.

"awesome goodness" - it simply dissolves you in a split second and makes you reappear , it feels like you are a sponge squeezed out of dirty water and re dipped into a fresh bucket. but in some time you get dirty again..depends on how long you kept that feeling alive..
..this is my personal experience and don't read into this as another desperate attempt. because i will reply if you ask.

All i know is what was told,
All i think is what i know,
All i am is what i think,
All i know NOT is who I Am.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-05-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 08:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 08:09 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  And my confidence is that i am willing to risk ridicule , no matter how unpleasant and shattering it can be.

Please enlighten me, what's so awesome about your snake oil compared to every other salesman's snake oil?

mine is free.

All i know is what was told,
All i think is what i know,
All i am is what i think,
All i know NOT is who I Am.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-05-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 08:27 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 08:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Please enlighten me, what's so awesome about your snake oil compared to every other salesman's snake oil?

mine is free.

If it leads you to start believing things without justification then the cost is still too high.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like unfogged's post
21-05-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Looking for 1 volunteer for an experiment
(21-05-2016 08:27 AM)Silentroar Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 08:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Please enlighten me, what's so awesome about your snake oil compared to every other salesman's snake oil?

mine is free.

Consider

Dodgy

Drinking Beverage

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes evenheathen's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: