Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
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23-12-2015, 03:06 AM
Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
Do we have any Sirius XM POTUS channel listeners here? I'm a bit of a political junkie who is feeling pretty pessimistic about the manner in which "faith" saturates every aspect of our political discourse in this country. Even among those who are supposed progressives you get this sort of religious pandering that masquerades as some sort of virtue:

4:08 a.m.: Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton issues a statement. “I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. . . . The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.”

Somehow the simpletons on the Left, in their fervor to oppose the Tea Party and right wing talk radio, have become apologists for the most retrograde religion in existence. If you dare to point out the fact that Islam, even in its moderate forms, is largely incompatible with Western Liberalism you are bound to be flamed by fire-breathing lefties as an Islamophobe, a fascist, a Nazi, etc.

While I understand the policy goals that motivate such cotton candy views as that espoused by Secretary Clinton above, I'm afraid I didn't spend 20+ years studying the Bible, theology and comparative religion, ultimately concluding that it was all the best efforts of those who lived in times of ignorance and hence completely discredited, only to leave it behind and open up my arms to embrace Islam as a valid worldview out of some misguided sense of American values.

Afraid I just can't support the 'non-denigration' of Islam. Islam is at least as bad as Christianity, and probably worse. Clearly it is considerably more violent at the present time. While I wholeheartedly reject any sort of harassment, persecution or even rude behavior directed toward individual Muslims, I feel that Islam can, should, must be denigrated by anyone interested in seeing this country continue to progress toward secularism and away from our religion-soaked roots.

All of this is a long-winded and circuitous route to ask if anyone can point me in the direction of atheist/secular groups that are politically active or involved in lobbying for secular issues. When I say in the title that I'm looking for groups that are politically moderate I mostly mean that I am not looking for groups that are mainly agitating for leftist social goals--LGBT rights, abortion rights, etc. Nor do I give two figs about Darwin Day. I'd like to know whether there are any groups more narrowly focused on injecting a secular point of view into our mainstream political discourse, groups that would be worth joining, membership, contributions. The frustration is that even among sane voices in politics I'm often not hearing the secular viewpoint or it is mentioned as an afterthought. Personally I feel like the gen Xers turning 40 means the atheist/secularist demographic shift is ready to burst on the scene in a very serious and mainstream manner.
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23-12-2015, 04:25 AM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
Welcome to TTA. Smile
The Freedom From Religion Foundation might be what you're looking for.
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23-12-2015, 04:28 AM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
American atheist & David Silverman's goals may be the type of group you seek. I don't know if there's a strongly motivated active group in a vain you really seek elsewhere.

And Gen Xers are still largely religious. More may not belong to organized religions or go to church but the numbers are still high in belief there, and non-belief has a lot of "spiritual" new age deity belief. I don't forsee much shift from genX politicians.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-12-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
(23-12-2015 03:06 AM)Sobek Wrote:  have become apologists for the most retrograde religion in existence. If you dare to point out the fact that Islam, even in its moderate forms, is largely incompatible with Western Liberalism...

Actually I disagree. Regardless of religion you get radical, fundamental nutjobs when people are impoverished, destitute, uneducated without the mental tools to make sense of the world around them and balance the crazy stuff in their bibles against common sense. Look at how barbaric Christians were during the crusades. And even today the orthodox Jews in Israel's Knesset (parliament) read the parts of the bible that says they are god's chosen people and god gave them this land and they have the right to take the property of anyone occupying their land and then kill them. Unless they're hot, and then they can rape the first, and then kill them. And they openly advocate in parliament a policy of expulsion--take the Palestinian's stuff, their homes, load them onto buses and ship them into the desert where you dump them to die. Not totally unlike what happened to them a few decades prior, which was done by a christian nation.

So what I always point out repeatedly much to the chagrin of those with mainstream political views is that Iran in the 1950's was a peaceful, modern, progressive democracy, with equal rights for women before many European countries, prestigious universities (the first physicist to calculate the speed of light was from Tehran university, as well as the first commercial laser), their auto sector exported more cars than the UK, they had an advanced space program, and if you look at photos, you see a modern city with no burka's in sight that could just as easily be a picture of NYC. That was the natural state of a Shiite muslim nation when they were left alone. But then in 1952 the US overthrew their democratic government, despite them having not been involved in any conflict in over 200 years, and put in place a dictator who let BP and Standard Oil take Iran's oil without paying for it. After the country was looted for 20 years and the people were oppressed, destitute and uneducated THEN they became religious radicals. And if the same thing happened to a christian nation, they too would become radicalized. Thus IMO the problem is that the US and her allies feel the solution to every problem is to carpet bomb some country in the Middle East. And then when the survivors become "terrorists" and are willing to sacrifice their life in revenge attacks, the solution is to carpet bomb yet another country in the middle east. I point to the news this week that an opinion poll revealed 1 in 4 Americans were in favor of bombing Agrabah, the fictional country in Disney's Aladdin. And, if Agrabah actually existed and the US bombed them, the remaining survivors trying to cope in a nation reduced to a pile of rubble would become "radical terrorists" and Americans would look down at them for being primitive and propose the way to fix the problem was by dropping yet more bombs.

Have you ever been to Istanbul? I have. It's beautiful and modern and fashionable. That's what an Islamic society looks like when they have a functional economy, proper education, and haven't been bombed into the stone ages. Thus the problem of radical Islam isn't Islam itself--it's the West's foreign policy.
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23-12-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
(23-12-2015 12:14 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(23-12-2015 03:06 AM)Sobek Wrote:  have become apologists for the most retrograde religion in existence. If you dare to point out the fact that Islam, even in its moderate forms, is largely incompatible with Western Liberalism...

Actually I disagree. Regardless of religion you get radical, fundamental nutjobs when people are impoverished, destitute, uneducated without the mental tools to make sense of the world around them...

Shouldn't we be seeing more terrorists from basically everywhere then? Instead, the vast majority are Islamic. You don't see poor uneducated Russians shooting up Paris.
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23-12-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
Joins our forum to ask about another forum that might suit their needs better Consider


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-12-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
(23-12-2015 12:14 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(23-12-2015 03:06 AM)Sobek Wrote:  have become apologists for the most retrograde religion in existence. If you dare to point out the fact that Islam, even in its moderate forms, is largely incompatible with Western Liberalism...
I point to the news this week that an opinion poll revealed 1 in 4 Americans were in favor of bombing Agrabah, the fictional country in Disney's Aladdin. And, if Agrabah actually existed and the US bombed them, the remaining survivors trying to cope in a nation reduced to a pile of rubble would become "radical terrorists" and Americans would look down at them for being primitive and propose the way to fix the problem was by dropping yet more bombs.

So now that they've created these "radical terrorists", they should stop bombing em and... Give them money to make revenge bombs? Group hug them so that they may more assuredly blow somebody up? Give them an education so that they may become a more efficient weapon of death while holding their already fucked up beliefs in some protected part of their mind in a state of cognitive dissonance? I'm actually curious about whether there is a solution here..
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23-12-2015, 02:44 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
(23-12-2015 12:14 PM)frankksj Wrote:  (the first physicist to calculate the speed of light was from Tehran university,

No, it was not. Ever heard of Albert Michelson? Consider

Quote:as well as the first commercial laser),

Misleading as is usual for you. Facepalm
"December 1960: Ali Javan, William Bennett Jr. and Donald Herriott of Bell Labs develop the helium-neon (HeNe) laser, the first to generate a continuous beam of light at 1.15 μm."
Ali Javan got his PhD at Columbia University.

Quote:their auto sector exported more cars than the UK, they had an advanced space program,

Citations?

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23-12-2015, 03:28 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
(23-12-2015 02:27 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Instead, the vast majority are Islamic. You don't see poor uneducated Russians shooting up Paris.

When did the US carpet bomb Russia and destroy all their infrastructure? So why would you expect Russian terrorists to then try attacking the US? I don't get your point.

The fact is that whatever country the US bombs into the stone ages, regardless of religion, the survivors will pursue revenge attacks (ie become "terrorists"). The vast majority are Islamic because the vast majority of countries the US bombed into oblivion are Islamic.

If the US stuck it's nose in, say, Italy's business and then bombed the country to the ground for not doing what the US wanted, then there would be Italian "terrorists" seeking revenge. I don't even understand your point because what I said, which is so simple and obvious, is that whatever countries the US bombs, the survivors will seek revenge. So, unable to form a coherent argument, you try to counter this point by pointing to Russia, a country the US never bombed???
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23-12-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: Looking for Atheist groups that are politically moderate
(23-12-2015 03:28 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(23-12-2015 02:27 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Instead, the vast majority are Islamic. You don't see poor uneducated Russians shooting up Paris.

When did the US carpet bomb Russia and destroy all their infrastructure? So why would you expect Russian terrorists to then try attacking the US? I don't get your point.

The fact is that whatever country the US bombs into the stone ages, regardless of religion, the survivors will pursue revenge attacks (ie become "terrorists"). The vast majority are Islamic because the vast majority of countries the US bombed into oblivion are Islamic.

If the US stuck it's nose in, say, Italy's business and then bombed the country to the ground for not doing what the US wanted, then there would be Italian "terrorists" seeking revenge. I don't even understand your point because what I said, which is so simple and obvious, is that whatever countries the US bombs, the survivors will seek revenge. So, unable to form a coherent argument, you try to counter this point by pointing to Russia, a country the US never bombed???

The U.S. bombed the crap out of Japan and Germany. Consider

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