Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
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19-04-2012, 10:20 AM
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
(19-04-2012 08:53 AM)Darxide Wrote:  
(19-04-2012 06:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  You're story doesn't make sense to me. You have been in the JW world, have access to all their literature and arguments; why are you asking us for anti-JW ammo? You have it at your fingertips.
Did you miss the part where I said it was close to 15 years ago?

I guess I did. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-04-2012, 10:30 PM
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
(18-04-2012 07:49 PM)Darxide Wrote:  A little backstory: my parents are JWs, have been for the last 15+ years. I was 13 when they began studying with the witnesses and between 14 and 16 I was required to attend the weekly meetings with them. I've never been a believer in any supernatural hocus pocus, but for the couple of years I was having to attend, I did try to believe. I don't know why I tried, but I did. It never worked. Not once did I actually believe, but I did learn most of the things that JWs actually believe and what they don't (90% of people I've ever talked to have no clue what JWs believe and think some really weird things about JWs that just aren't true.)

Fast forward to now. I one of those inevitable knocks on the door last week. I had a nice, long discussion with the guy and it was rather enjoyable to actually have a somewhat intellectual discussion. I don't typically encounter that in my day-to-day life. I've never once hidden my non-belief and will (sometimes) go out of my way to mock religion publicly. Discussions are rarely very productive. Well, to keep it short, I explained my atheism and my strong interest (and knowledge) in science. I agreed to him dropping off different magazines that focus on the more science-y areas and to having a discussion in the near future. He challenged me to get a list of objections and things to discuss. I already have a very long list of things, BUT using the "Refuting the Bible" link here on TTA isn't going to be the best thing to use for JWs. They have a very sneaky logic in explaining away a lot of the things that usually work on most other flavors of Christianity. Also, their exact beliefs in things are different enough that a lot of the standard arguments are completely useless.

Make no mistake. I want to destroy any argument this guy brings to the table. I mean global-thermonuclear-war-type destruction. I'm just going to need some help in doing so from someone who's well versed in the beliefs of the Witnesses.

Thanks!
Sup bro. I think I'm your man to talk to.

I was raised as JW. My parents we're raised JW. So suffice to say I was indoctrinated. I believed it so sincerely I was baptized in 2001. Since then logic overtook me. But once, I've spent many hours knocking on doors as JW.

As far as the science goes, their argument won't be much different than any other theistic rant. He will give you literature called 'Is there a creator that cares about you' book. Very science oriented. And there are a couple of brochures called 'Was life created.' and 'The origin of life. five questions worth asking.'

Forget Jesus. Stars died so you could live.-Lawrence Krauss

For god loved the world so much he tortured his only begotten son, gave him a 3 day nap only to wake up in ultimate awesomeness and called it a sacrifice.
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24-04-2012, 07:49 AM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2012 08:28 AM by rksplash.)
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
(21-04-2012 10:30 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  
(18-04-2012 07:49 PM)Darxide Wrote:  A little backstory: my parents are JWs, have been for the last 15+ years. I was 13 when they began studying with the witnesses and between 14 and 16 I was required to attend the weekly meetings with them. I've never been a believer in any supernatural hocus pocus, but for the couple of years I was having to attend, I did try to believe. I don't know why I tried, but I did. It never worked. Not once did I actually believe, but I did learn most of the things that JWs actually believe and what they don't (90% of people I've ever talked to have no clue what JWs believe and think some really weird things about JWs that just aren't true.)







Fast forward to now. I one of those inevitable knocks on the door last week. I had a nice, long discussion with the guy and it was rather enjoyable to actually have a somewhat intellectual discussion. I don't typically encounter that in my day-to-day life. I've never once hidden my non-belief and will (sometimes) go out of my way to mock religion publicly. Discussions are rarely very productive. Well, to keep it short, I explained my atheism and my strong interest (and knowledge) in science. I agreed to him dropping off different magazines that focus on the more science-y areas and to having a discussion in the near future. He challenged me to get a list of objections and things to discuss. I already have a very long list of things, BUT using the "Refuting the Bible" link here on TTA isn't going to be the best thing to use for JWs. They have a very sneaky logic in explaining away a lot of the things that usually work on most other flavors of Christianity. Also, their exact beliefs in things are different enough that a lot of the standard arguments are completely useless.







Make no mistake. I want to destroy any argument this guy brings to the table. I mean global-thermonuclear-war-type destruction. I'm just going to need some help in doing so from someone who's well versed in the beliefs of the Witnesses.







Thanks!
Sup bro. I think I'm your man to talk to.







I was raised as JW. My parents we're raised JW. So suffice to say I was indoctrinated. I believed it so sincerely I was baptized in 2001. Since then logic overtook me. But once, I've spent many hours knocking on doors as JW.







As far as the science goes, their argument won't be much different than any other theistic rant. He will give you literature called 'Is there a creator that cares about you' book. Very science oriented. And there are a couple of brochures called 'Was life created.' and 'The origin of life. five questions worth asking.'

















Hi, my name is Richard and I am inactive attending meetings at the Blossom Park congregation in Ottawa, Canada. I have been inactive for 30 years and have started attending meetings for about 2 years now. As far as I know I am sane. Saw a psychiatrist 2 years ago and he gave my brain a AAA. Like you I was raised in this faith then at age 16 decided to move out to explore the planet. The 70's were alarming to the older generation. Many changes swept North America like women's lib, mini squirts, the British invasion, and hashish here in Ottawa due to our Lebanese connection in Montreal. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/.../drool.gif To a 16 year old boy my choices became clouded. Singing in church with little old ladies wasn't cool anymore. Having been born in a JW family it was fun until I started to look like the drummer in Boston. When I walked into a kingdom hall people would disperse. I was baptized and had a formal understanding of the bible, the prophecies and my role model Jesus. The problem was I didn't want to be a JW. At 16 you wanna party. And so I did.

Self educated I chose to be an entrepreneur as a contractor mainly in backyard recreational and decor. Business was booming in the 80's. We all made money and partied till the crash of 2000. I even went back to school and acquired the necessary skills to diversify my en devours. Unfortunately my partying led me to financial ruin. Bankrupt, divorced with kids on the weekend, working on my second relationship my life needless to say was no longer fun.

Why am I recalling Rick's adventures in life? I don't like this anonymous blog stuff. It's too impersonal. Trying to talk to someone about everlasting life in a paradise on earth when you have no face is like a prank call. Hit and run. No heart. I am trying to reestablish a relationship with an invisible entity that I see as very real and the majority of people in the world now do not. I know it's kind of creepy to some but to some of us it is very real and not to sound boastful refreshing in a world that is obviously doomed to fail.



I welcome any discussion about any subject without bias. Humans have this ability which make us different from most of the animal kingdom. Together we can educate, grow and prosper. Our new social media tools provide unprecedented opportunities to evolve into a more informed world leading to a better life.



If I start to sound to preachy give me a virtual smack on the head with your choice of weapon








Hi, my name is Richard and I am inactive attending meetings at the Blossom Park congregation in Ottawa, Canada. I have been inactive for 30 years and have started attending meetings for about 2 years now. As far as I know I am sane. Saw a psychiatrist 2 years ago and he gave my brain a AAA. Like you I was raised in this faith then at age 16 decided to move out to explore the planet. The 70's were alarming to the older generation. Many changes swept North America like woman's lib, mini squirts, the British invasion, and hashish here in Ottawa due to our Lebanese connection in Montreal. To a 16 year old boy my choices became clouded. Singing in church with little old ladies wasn't cool anymore. Having been born in a JW family it was fun until I started to look like the drummer in Boston. When I walked into a kingdom hall people would disperse. I was baptized at 12 and have a formal understanding of the bible, the prophecies and my role model Jesus. My specialty is how science and nature can lead to a better understanding of why and how the earth was designed by advanced entities. The problem was I didn't want to be a JW. At 16 you wanna party. And so I did.

Self educated I chose to be an entrepreneur as a contractor mainly in backyard recreational and decor. Business was booming in the 80's and 90's. We all made money and partied till the crash of 2000. I even went back to school in 98 to acquired the necessary skills to diversify my en devours. Unfortunately my partying led me to financial ruin. Bankrupt, divorced with kids on the weekend, working on my second relationship my life needless to say was no longer fun.
Why am I recalling Rick's adventures in life? I don't like this anonymous blog stuff. It's too impersonal. Trying to talk to someone about everlasting life in a paradise on earth when you have no face is like a prank call. Hit and run. No heart. I am trying to reestablish a relationship with an invisible entity that I see as very real and the majority of people in the world now do not. I know it's kind of creepy to some but to some of us it is very real and not to sound boastful refreshing in a world that is seems doomed to fail. (smack!)

I welcome any discussion about any subject without bias. Humans have this ability. This make us different from most of the animal kingdom. Together we can educate, grow and prosper. Our new social media tools provide unprecedented opportunities to evolve into a more informed world leading to a better life.

If I start to sound to preachy give me a virtual smack on the head with your choice of weapon.
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26-04-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
(18-04-2012 07:49 PM)Darxide Wrote:  A little backstory: my parents are JWs, have been for the last 15+ years. I was 13 when they began studying with the witnesses and between 14 and 16 I was required to attend the weekly meetings with them. I've never been a believer in any supernatural hocus pocus, but for the couple of years I was having to attend, I did try to believe. I don't know why I tried, but I did. It never worked. Not once did I actually believe, but I did learn most of the things that JWs actually believe and what they don't (90% of people I've ever talked to have no clue what JWs believe and think some really weird things about JWs that just aren't true.)

Fast forward to now. I one of those inevitable knocks on the door last week. I had a nice, long discussion with the guy and it was rather enjoyable to actually have a somewhat intellectual discussion. I don't typically encounter that in my day-to-day life. I've never once hidden my non-belief and will (sometimes) go out of my way to mock religion publicly. Discussions are rarely very productive. Well, to keep it short, I explained my atheism and my strong interest (and knowledge) in science. I agreed to him dropping off different magazines that focus on the more science-y areas and to having a discussion in the near future. He challenged me to get a list of objections and things to discuss. I already have a very long list of things, BUT using the "Refuting the Bible" link here on TTA isn't going to be the best thing to use for JWs. They have a very sneaky logic in explaining away a lot of the things that usually work on most other flavors of Christianity. Also, their exact beliefs in things are different enough that a lot of the standard arguments are completely useless.

Make no mistake. I want to destroy any argument this guy brings to the table. I mean global-thermonuclear-war-type destruction. I'm just going to need some help in doing so from someone who's well versed in the beliefs of the Witnesses.

Thanks!
You could start by confronting them with the JW's long, sad history of failed predictions of the apocalypse. I think they've predicted it like a dozen times or so since the late 1800s. In a recent issue of Awake!, they had the balls to rip on Harold Camping for predicting the wrong end times.
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26-04-2012, 08:52 PM
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
On another thread, Buddy Christ put a link to a qualiasoup youtube clip on burden of proof.

I have been watching them - I think they are really good and frame the atheist argument in a way I think is really enlightening. I love the concept that the burden of proof lies wholly in the person making the claim.
While I didnt see one on JW specifically, you may still want to check out a few. You may or may not find them too basic, but sometimes when I'm in an emotional/complex conversation or mediation, often keeping things basic is a successful tact. Dont get hooked.

Putting faith in its place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV_REEdvxo&feature=fvsr
The burdon of proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...ayBys8gaJY

Your beliefs do not make you a better person, your behavior does.
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27-04-2012, 12:32 AM
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
(26-04-2012 08:30 PM)Blood Wrote:  You could start by confronting them with the JW's long, sad history of failed predictions of the apocalypse. I think they've predicted it like a dozen times or so since the late 1800s. In a recent issue of Awake!, they had the balls to rip on Harold Camping for predicting the wrong end times.
They will respond with "The light is continually getting brighter." and 'Jehovahs word is flawless, however, we as the interpreters, are not."

Forget Jesus. Stars died so you could live.-Lawrence Krauss

For god loved the world so much he tortured his only begotten son, gave him a 3 day nap only to wake up in ultimate awesomeness and called it a sacrifice.
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27-04-2012, 05:39 AM (This post was last modified: 27-04-2012 05:43 AM by Filox.)
RE: Looking for someone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses
Jesus Christ in Haven, here we go, Jehovah's have discovered that here be some not-Jahovah's. We are doomed people, they are knocking already, prepare your dogs and science books!

Big Grin

My FAVOURITE argument for rediscovering God is "since I stopped believing and started to party, my life was ruined, but God has saved me again"...

I'm sorry, but I find that kind of thinking the easier way out than to admit to yourself that you and only you are responsible for your actions, if you went bankrupt while partying that has nothing to do with God, it has to do with your inability to party with limits, like the rest of the non-bankrupt people do. I call this the most classical JW argument for listening to them and I don't like it! At all!!

The stronger your own will power is, the less you need God to help you out in life. Fight on your own, for yourself, don't pray to some God and drain power from him, because you are the one that is giving away and receiving that power, there is no God to help you. It is the placebo effect you create with your mind, only you do not realise it.

But, please, do try again, I like JW stories...

Jehovah, Jehovah...

Big Grin

P.S.

I'm sorry, I might be wrong, but I do not believe in this story, since it is like a broken record, too familiar to be true every time I hear it. And since this is the Internet, my scepticism is even higher...

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