Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
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18-06-2017, 07:38 AM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(17-06-2017 08:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  You've signed up to the wrong social contract... the one drafted by the people who make and sell the fear and the hopelessness and of course, the guns... the one that perpetuates the myth that frontier justice is the only justice.

You can escape it. But first you have to realise that it's a state of mind... your mind.

THIS.

So much this.

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*edit to fix quote*
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18-06-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(17-06-2017 08:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 10:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ...
Nope. Just take a look around. The world is a fucked up place. ISIS. Gangs. Nut job mass shooters. Robbers. Has any politician figured this out? Does any government truly protect it's people? The world just seems hell bent on violence and there doesn't seem to be any hope. So I'll support the party that at least gives me a chance to not be a sitting duck to protect myself and my family. In this fucked up world, guns rights are all we have. It's sad it's come to that but it has.

Oh! I've just noticed this comment.

So those people who chided me for calling Murika a 'fear culture' ... Pah! Is what I say.

LDH,
That comment is worthy of a JW's sale's pitch:

"Ooooh! The sky is falling. Read this WatchTower"

To which my response was "Here's Professor Pinker's The Better Angels of our Nature. Now, start enjoying your life".

You've signed up to the wrong social contract... the one drafted by the people who make and sell the fear and the hopelessness and of course, the guns... the one that perpetuates the myth that frontier justice is the only justice.

You can escape it. But first you have to realise that it's a state of mind... your mind.

The next step is learn to recognise the salesmen (Duterte, Trump, The Reverend Samuel Parris, The NRA etc.) and learn to laugh at them.

Which, to bring this back on topic, is why the Brits laugh at Trump and think him unworthy of a state visit.

Yes

I used to believe as you do. Until I became a cop. I never had my concealed carry license until after I left the police force (I didn't need one as a cop). But back before I was a cop I never carried or had a gun in my possession, with the exception of my hunting rifle.

But after I became a cop, I started noticing the victims. I've personally responded to over 100 rape reports. "If only I had a gun" was the response of many women I spoke to. I went to a house one night where a man was beaten to death in a home invasion. The wife, raped and beaten. She told detectives how she had made her husband get rid of his handgun he kept by his bed after they got married. "It's my fault he's dead. He could have protected us" she kept saying. The list goes on. Victim after victim. Muggings. Robberies. Home invasions. Rapes. Car jackings.

I also went to calls where the homeowner had held at gunpoint an invader or shot the invader. Family safe, criminal dead or incapacitated.

Until you are in the shoes as a victim, it's easy to say "it's unreasonable fear." But you never know. Crime is random. Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you always will.

Maybe because I've seen it with my own eyes it is more real to me.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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18-06-2017, 10:05 AM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(17-06-2017 08:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  You've signed up to the wrong social contract...

Wait a second, aren't you the guy who will get caned for chewing gum in public? Consider

#sigh
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18-06-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(18-06-2017 09:34 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(17-06-2017 08:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Oh! I've just noticed this comment.

So those people who chided me for calling Murika a 'fear culture' ... Pah! Is what I say.

LDH,
That comment is worthy of a JW's sale's pitch:

"Ooooh! The sky is falling. Read this WatchTower"

To which my response was "Here's Professor Pinker's The Better Angels of our Nature. Now, start enjoying your life".

You've signed up to the wrong social contract... the one drafted by the people who make and sell the fear and the hopelessness and of course, the guns... the one that perpetuates the myth that frontier justice is the only justice.

You can escape it. But first you have to realise that it's a state of mind... your mind.

The next step is learn to recognise the salesmen (Duterte, Trump, The Reverend Samuel Parris, The NRA etc.) and learn to laugh at them.

Which, to bring this back on topic, is why the Brits laugh at Trump and think him unworthy of a state visit.

Yes

I used to believe as you do. Until I became a cop. I never had my concealed carry license until after I left the police force (I didn't need one as a cop). But back before I was a cop I never carried or had a gun in my possession, with the exception of my hunting rifle.

But after I became a cop, I started noticing the victims. I've personally responded to over 100 rape reports. "If only I had a gun" was the response of many women I spoke to. I went to a house one night where a man was beaten to death in a home invasion. The wife, raped and beaten. She told detectives how she had made her husband get rid of his handgun he kept by his bed after they got married. "It's my fault he's dead. He could have protected us" she kept saying. The list goes on. Victim after victim. Muggings. Robberies. Home invasions. Rapes. Car jackings.

I also went to calls where the homeowner had held at gunpoint an invader or shot the invader. Family safe, criminal dead or incapacitated.

Until you are in the shoes as a victim, it's easy to say "it's unreasonable fear." But you never know. Crime is random. Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you always will.

Maybe because I've seen it with my own eyes it is more real to me.

(18-06-2017 09:34 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ......I became a cop.

Laugh out load Laugh out load


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Yeah, mall patrol is a tough gig.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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18-06-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(18-06-2017 09:34 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I used to believe as you do. Until I became a cop. I never had my concealed carry license until after I left the police force (I didn't need one as a cop). But back before I was a cop I never carried or had a gun in my possession, with the exception of my hunting rifle.

But after I became a cop, I started noticing the victims. I've personally responded to over 100 rape reports. "If only I had a gun" was the response of many women I spoke to. I went to a house one night where a man was beaten to death in a home invasion. The wife, raped and beaten. She told detectives how she had made her husband get rid of his handgun he kept by his bed after they got married. "It's my fault he's dead. He could have protected us" she kept saying. The list goes on. Victim after victim. Muggings. Robberies. Home invasions. Rapes. Car jackings.

I also went to calls where the homeowner had held at gunpoint an invader or shot the invader. Family safe, criminal dead or incapacitated.

Until you are in the shoes as a victim, it's easy to say "it's unreasonable fear." But you never know. Crime is random. Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you always will.

Maybe because I've seen it with my own eyes it is more real to me.

Have you ever bothered to compare the rates of home invasions or rapes to countries with stricter gun laws, such as the UK. They're certainly not higher but lower in most instances. So there has to be another contributing factor, not tied to gun possession. The gun may be the Aspirin taking care of the symptoms at times. It certainly isn't the remedy.

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18-06-2017, 11:28 AM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
And so is, apparently, the Queen's speech: Theresa May has cancelled next year's Queen's Speech to give the Government more time to push through Brexit laws.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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18-06-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(18-06-2017 11:22 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(18-06-2017 09:34 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I used to believe as you do. Until I became a cop. I never had my concealed carry license until after I left the police force (I didn't need one as a cop). But back before I was a cop I never carried or had a gun in my possession, with the exception of my hunting rifle.

But after I became a cop, I started noticing the victims. I've personally responded to over 100 rape reports. "If only I had a gun" was the response of many women I spoke to. I went to a house one night where a man was beaten to death in a home invasion. The wife, raped and beaten. She told detectives how she had made her husband get rid of his handgun he kept by his bed after they got married. "It's my fault he's dead. He could have protected us" she kept saying. The list goes on. Victim after victim. Muggings. Robberies. Home invasions. Rapes. Car jackings.

I also went to calls where the homeowner had held at gunpoint an invader or shot the invader. Family safe, criminal dead or incapacitated.

Until you are in the shoes as a victim, it's easy to say "it's unreasonable fear." But you never know. Crime is random. Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you always will.

Maybe because I've seen it with my own eyes it is more real to me.

Have you ever bothered to compare the rates of home invasions or rapes to countries with stricter gun laws, such as the UK. They're certainly not higher but lower in most instances. So there has to be another contributing factor, not tied to gun possession. The gun may be the Aspirin taking care of the symptoms at times. It certainly isn't the remedy.

I was actually just glancing at the gun crime stats, specifically assault, robbery and murder stats for a discussion I'm having in another thread. I didn't compare other countries, but it popped out at me that those states with high murder rates have high % of minorities. And those states with low murder rates are states that are predominately Caucasian. I didn't really dive into it much, it just stood out to me that states that are very "white" are low crime (North Dakota, Wyoming, Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont etc) and the very high crime states have very large black populations (Alabama, Louisiana, South Carolina, Washington D.C., Maryland, Mississippi).

I will have to do more research to verify. Could just be coincidental. I haven't looked to see the demographics of arrests for those crimes.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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18-06-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(18-06-2017 03:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I didn't compare other countries, but it popped out at me that those states with high murder rates have high % of minorities.

You definetely should check against other countries. Such as the UK, which has high minorities also.

Years ago, I checked all these things when this discussion came up on AF. I'd have to look up the stats again, but the differences were huge. Especially when it comes to gun violence as compared to other countries than the US.

That's a very simple list only taking gun related deaths into account. But there's a difference between 0,23 gun related deaths in the UK per 100.000 a year and 10,54 in the USA. The UK, as you know, has one of the strictest gun legislations on earth after the Dunblane massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...death_rate

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18-06-2017, 07:15 PM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(18-06-2017 03:52 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ...
I will have to do more research to verify. Could just be coincidental.
...

Could be.

Or it could be a chain of cause and effect (cause vs. root cause).

It would be interesting to see the results of your research with demographics compared to socio-economic status.

Note that poverty is not the cause of crime ... relative poverty (income disparity) correlates very strongly particularly for males seeking to establish their identity within a group's hierarchy.

Quote:Criminologists have known for decades that income inequality is the best predictor of the local homicide rate [...] most homicides are the dénouements of competitive interactions between men, and where desired goods are distributed relatively inequitably and competition for those goods is severe, dangerous tactics of competition are relatively appealing. A high homicide rate is just one of many unfortunate consequences.

Note also, for example, places like Singapore with near zero crime levels. Is it merely a coincidence that males of testosterone-riddled age are performing National Service?

Consider

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19-06-2017, 03:13 PM
RE: Looks like Trump's visit to the UK is off
(18-06-2017 04:47 PM)abaris Wrote:  That's a very simple list only taking gun related deaths into account. But there's a difference between 0,23 gun related deaths in the UK per 100.000 a year and 10,54 in the USA. The UK, as you know, has one of the strictest gun legislations on earth after the Dunblane massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...death_rate

What's more, the vast majority of the UK population prefer to live in a society where gun ownership is strictly controlled.

From 2010:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2010/06/07/Ban-on-guns/

Quote:The majority of the British public thinks there should be greater restrictions on gun ownership, a new survey for the Sun has found.

Almost a third (31%) think there should be a complete ban on all gun ownership by civilians, and a further 38% think there should be greater restrictions on guns. 23% think the current restrictions on gun ownership are about right, and a mere four percent believe the restrictions should be relaxed.
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