Loopholes
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27-04-2010, 09:22 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
(27-04-2010 09:03 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Point out the mistakes yourself, martin. The problem with the "mysterious" routine you're pulling is that there is absolutely difference between what you've said and what someone with no case would say. And, given your past behavior on the site, it isn't too much of a stretch to believe that you don't have a case.

I have made my point, that many on this site no nothing of what they are talking about. You say I have no case because I would answer and you would not reply back, or you would "No it doesn't" This is a different tack, you all claim you know the Bible, you claim to be free thinkers, you claim to be critical thinkers. Prove it show me where he is wrong.
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27-04-2010, 09:26 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
Superman would you be so kind as to read through my nutshell post?
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27-04-2010, 09:30 PM
RE: Loopholes
(27-04-2010 09:22 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(27-04-2010 09:03 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Point out the mistakes yourself, martin. The problem with the "mysterious" routine you're pulling is that there is absolutely difference between what you've said and what someone with no case would say. And, given your past behavior on the site, it isn't too much of a stretch to believe that you don't have a case.

I have made my point, that many on this site no nothing of what they are talking about.

No, you haven't made your point. That's what I'm talking about. You merely assert and never back it up.

Quote:You say I have no case because I would answer and you would not reply back, or you would "No it doesn't"

No, that's not what I do. I say you have no case because you haven't made a case. You just say "Ohoho, you got it wrong!" and, when asked what it is that we got wrong, refuse to explain.

Quote:This is a different tack, you all claim you know the Bible, you claim to be free thinkers, you claim to be critical thinkers. Prove it show me where he is wrong.

You show us. What about this is so hard to understand? We have already said that Ceryle's summary is accurate, as far as we can tell. It isn't even anything exceptionally controversial: he's merely offered a summary of the main Biblical tales. What is it that you have an objection to?

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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27-04-2010, 09:36 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
I can't help but post this: Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a rib-woman was convinced to eat from a magical tree by an infinitely sadistic being disguised as a talking snake with legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYyHGRM3q...r_embedded
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27-04-2010, 09:46 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
(27-04-2010 08:07 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Christians(I am generalizing here obviously, but trying to cover the majority never-the-less) believe that Yahweh created the universe, approximately six thousand years ago. Yahweh did so over the course of a week, spontaneously generating, through his godhood, the cosmos, earth, and everything else. Eden was created on earth, and Adam the first male human, created from dust. Shortly afterwards, Eve, the first female, was created from one of Adams ribs. Then happiness occurred.

Recall, there are two stories to creation...one where Adam and Eve are created AT THE SAME TIME, and the one you have posted, which is the one Christians seem to favor. And, yes, 'spontaneously generating' is correct, since the bible doesn't say anything about where the materials came from.

Quote:Later Lucifer, Yahwehs friend, would betray Yahweh, by deceiving Eve and tricking her into eating the forbidden fruit that Yahweh had placed into Eden. Long story short, Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden and never allowed to return again.

Accurate, yet again! Most Christian's will state that the serpent/snake/lizard/whatever was Satan himself providing the temptation and sending humanity into the abismal pit of sin we still can't get out of, even after nailing Jebus to the cross...

Quote:Following this, they began the population of earth. After a significant amount of inbreeding, the earth was now populated, culture had taken root, and life was going great.

That's just gross...that would mean that after Cane and Abel were born, they got busy with mom (a la Kay Parker and Mike Ranger) and had a whole bunch o' yungins...Since the bible doesn't say anything about god creating OTHER humans, this is the only assumption we have. Bleh!

Quote:However, Lucifer had set his grasp deeply upon the world. Yahweh was displeased with how his creation had turned evil, yes everyone, including the babies too. So, he told Noah, whom Yahweh liked very much, to build a boat and using his divine powers Yahweh ushered two of every variety of creature upon earth, into the boat, known as the ark. Then Yahweh spontaneously generated a massive amount of water, and drowned the entire world. Forty days later, everything was cool again though, and then the organisms that had survived upon the earth, came off from the ark, and began to repopulate the planet once more; with an extreme amount of inbreeding.

I find it funny that, when creationists speak about the beginning of the cosmos, they always bring up the 'something can't come from nothing' argument, yet they are perfectly okay with saying a whole planet worth of water 'just appeared' to rain down on the world for 40 days, enough to cover the highest mountain peak (Mount Everest, right?) Also, nice guy, that god, condemning even babies to death for their sins. What did they do, take pleasure in suckling off their mother's teet?

Quote:So, now that the world had been reset, so to speak, Yahweh wasn't in such a bad mood. On the other hand, he didn't like the false idols that everyone was starting to worship, so Yahweh let his chosen people know what he thought of that. After a significant amount of butchering and destroying of these false idols, and various miracles to prove his existence, Yahweh decided it was time to create Heaven.

So, his rules didn't seem to work and, no matter how much he threatened them, his 'people' didn't listen. Hey, let's create an invisible place called 'Heaven' and make it exclusive for the ones that can blow me best! Accurate once again, Ceryle.

Quote:So, he created a son through a virgin conception in a random human. Through his divine guidance, Yahwehs son, Jesus would become the savior of the world, and initiate the 'first coming' as prophesied in various holy text. After a fair amount of time had passed, Jesus was up and about and doing his thing, being the savior and everything. Then, he was betrayed. Long story short, he was crucified, dead for three days, and then resurrected, ascending into heaven and opening the doorway for everyone who accepted Jesus into their heart as the one true savior. Fast forward a couple thousand years, and here we are.

The word used in the original text was not virgin, but rather young maiden. It's also funny that the prophesies that did happen to come true were about 700 years too late. No proof of an actual guy named Jesus and, if there was, he was no more divine than the rest of us. Nice story, though, to use as political fodder during trying times for early Christians.

Quote:That's my 'Christianity in a nutshell', with as little prodding as possible bias.

Sorry, I tried to stay unbiased, but with crap like this, it's hard not to.
(27-04-2010 09:26 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Superman would you be so kind as to read through my nutshell post?

I hope this is what you meant... Smile
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27-04-2010, 09:50 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
Thanks for taking the time to go through it piece by piece Superman.
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27-04-2010, 09:54 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
(27-04-2010 09:46 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  
(27-04-2010 08:07 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Christians(I am generalizing here obviously, but trying to cover the majority never-the-less) believe that Yahweh created the universe, approximately six thousand years ago. Yahweh did so over the course of a week, spontaneously generating, through his godhood, the cosmos, earth, and everything else. Eden was created on earth, and Adam the first male human, created from dust. Shortly afterwards, Eve, the first female, was created from one of Adams ribs. Then happiness occurred.

Recall, there are two stories to creation...one where Adam and Eve are created AT THE SAME TIME, and the one you have posted, which is the one Christians seem to favor. And, yes, 'spontaneously generating' is correct, since the bible doesn't say anything about where the materials came from.

Quote:Later Lucifer, Yahwehs friend, would betray Yahweh, by deceiving Eve and tricking her into eating the forbidden fruit that Yahweh had placed into Eden. Long story short, Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden and never allowed to return again.

Accurate, yet again! Most Christian's will state that the serpent/snake/lizard/whatever was Satan himself providing the temptation and sending humanity into the abismal pit of sin we still can't get out of, even after nailing Jebus to the cross...

Quote:Following this, they began the population of earth. After a significant amount of inbreeding, the earth was now populated, culture had taken root, and life was going great.

That's just gross...that would mean that after Cane and Abel were born, they got busy with mom (a la Kay Parker and Mike Ranger) and had a whole bunch o' yungins...Since the bible doesn't say anything about god creating OTHER humans, this is the only assumption we have. Bleh!

Quote:However, Lucifer had set his grasp deeply upon the world. Yahweh was displeased with how his creation had turned evil, yes everyone, including the babies too. So, he told Noah, whom Yahweh liked very much, to build a boat and using his divine powers Yahweh ushered two of every variety of creature upon earth, into the boat, known as the ark. Then Yahweh spontaneously generated a massive amount of water, and drowned the entire world. Forty days later, everything was cool again though, and then the organisms that had survived upon the earth, came off from the ark, and began to repopulate the planet once more; with an extreme amount of inbreeding.

I find it funny that, when creationists speak about the beginning of the cosmos, they always bring up the 'something can't come from nothing' argument, yet they are perfectly okay with saying a whole planet worth of water 'just appeared' to rain down on the world for 40 days, enough to cover the highest mountain peak (Mount Everest, right?) Also, nice guy, that god, condemning even babies to death for their sins. What did they do, take pleasure in suckling off their mother's teet?

Quote:So, now that the world had been reset, so to speak, Yahweh wasn't in such a bad mood. On the other hand, he didn't like the false idols that everyone was starting to worship, so Yahweh let his chosen people know what he thought of that. After a significant amount of butchering and destroying of these false idols, and various miracles to prove his existence, Yahweh decided it was time to create Heaven.

So, his rules didn't seem to work and, no matter how much he threatened them, his 'people' didn't listen. Hey, let's create an invisible place called 'Heaven' and make it exclusive for the ones that can blow me best! Accurate once again, Ceryle.

Quote:So, he created a son through a virgin conception in a random human. Through his divine guidance, Yahwehs son, Jesus would become the savior of the world, and initiate the 'first coming' as prophesied in various holy text. After a fair amount of time had passed, Jesus was up and about and doing his thing, being the savior and everything. Then, he was betrayed. Long story short, he was crucified, dead for three days, and then resurrected, ascending into heaven and opening the doorway for everyone who accepted Jesus into their heart as the one true savior. Fast forward a couple thousand years, and here we are.

The word used in the original text was not virgin, but rather young maiden. It's also funny that the prophesies that did happen to come true were about 700 years too late. No proof of an actual guy named Jesus and, if there was, he was no more divine than the rest of us. Nice story, though, to use as political fodder during trying times for early Christians.

Quote:That's my 'Christianity in a nutshell', with as little prodding as possible bias.

Sorry, I tried to stay unbiased, but with crap like this, it's hard not to.
(27-04-2010 09:26 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Superman would you be so kind as to read through my nutshell post?

I hope this is what you meant... Smile

How did Satan "Later Lucifer, Yahwehs friend, would betray Yahweh" betray Yahweh?
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27-04-2010, 09:58 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
He weakened the nations of angels through slandering, and turning them away from Yahweh, afterwards he lead a rebellion in heaven with his rebel angels, thus resulting in their expulsion from heaven and subsequent fallen angel status.

At least, that seems to be the most common scenario.
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27-04-2010, 10:04 PM
 
RE: Loopholes
(27-04-2010 08:25 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(27-04-2010 06:55 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  "You are supposed to be a critical free thinker Google it and see what the other side says, trust me they won't take away your atheist card if you go on those sites, then compare it to what people who don't believe it happened say. Try and do it with an unbiased mind, if that is possible." -Martin

Yes, and you are supposed to be a bigoted, paranoid, and delusional Christian. Glad you're living up to the standard.

....Seriously, do you think we can stop constantly making personal jibes at one another?
Also, I don't really think that Jesus being part of the divine conflicts at all. After all, it's clearly a polytheistic religion.
I just searched out that information you commented on. Noahs ark being found and such. Although I am very interested in seeing how this develops, I'm currently skeptical by both the informations primary source: Fox News. As well as the way that the information is presented. I will definitely look forward to further developments of this discovery though; thanks for sharing.

Look critical thinkers, Fox news is not the problem with the story, the group that claims to have found it is. "Archeologists from Noah’s Ark Ministries International (NAMI) have reported that they found an ark that they believe has a “99.9 percent” chance of being the ancient Biblical artifact known as Noah’s Ark." Who wrote the story? "World Net Daily (WND) is an American web site that publishes news and associated content from a U. S. conservative perspective"

So what are the odds that "Noah's Ark Ministries" found Noah's ark? And the story was published by "World Daily Net"? My guess is zero! But what do I know? I am a "bigoted, paranoid, and delusional Christian" Outside of calling some ignorant, show me where I have ever called anyone "bigoted, paranoid, and delusional Atheist" I have never called anyone "asshat"

PZ Meyers best put it in his blog:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/..._daily.php
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28-04-2010, 06:32 AM
RE: Loopholes
(27-04-2010 09:54 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  How did Satan "Later Lucifer, Yahwehs friend, would betray Yahweh" betray Yahweh?

Pretty sure Ceryle is referring to the war in Heaven talked about in Revelations:

Revelations 12:7-9, KJV Wrote:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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