Loopholes
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 4.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-04-2010, 07:31 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
So, as it stands, I appear to have represented myself, with knowledge of what my opposition 'generally' holds to be true; at least enough to begin to argue against it, it seems. However, due to the nature of the discussion, it may be that I am required to know every single facet of my opponents argument; as opposed to the primary componenets, in order to be accepted as a part of the debate.
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 08:47 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
BTW, martin...the Noah's Ark find on Mt. Ararat? It's a fake:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/...a_fake.php

I called bullshit and I was right...nyah, nyah, nyah! Tongue

What I find amazing about the posting above is that it was a young-earth creationist who revealed that it was a hoax. The troubling thing is that the only reason he DID reveal it was because he had lent $100,000.00 to the Chinese Evangelicals for the expedition, which they didn't use for that purpose, and for which they haven't given the money back.

Interesting what motivates people to tell the truth.
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 08:54 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
(28-04-2010 06:32 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(27-04-2010 09:54 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  How did Satan "Later Lucifer, Yahwehs friend, would betray Yahweh" betray Yahweh?

Pretty sure Ceryle is referring to the war in Heaven talked about in Revelations:

Revelations 12:7-9, KJV Wrote:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

No because he was talking about the garden of eden
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 09:13 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
Yes, I suppose it would be two separate occasions of betrayal on behalf of Lucifer to Yahweh.

One where he turns of the nations of angels and such against Yahweh, presumably prior to the events in Eden.

And another where he corrupts Yahwehs later creation, i.e. humanity.
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 09:16 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
(28-04-2010 08:47 AM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  BTW, martin...the Noah's Ark find on Mt. Ararat? It's a fake:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/...a_fake.php

I called bullshit and I was right...nyah, nyah, nyah! Tongue

What I find amazing about the posting above is that it was a young-earth creationist who revealed that it was a hoax. The troubling thing is that the only reason he DID reveal it was because he had lent $100,000.00 to the Chinese Evangelicals for the expedition, which they didn't use for that purpose, and for which they haven't given the money back.

Interesting what motivates people to tell the truth.

Look at post 35 this is 62, I said to Unbeliever ANOTHER ark in a post before 35. I said look at the source and who reported it. Why this constant need for approval?
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2010 09:23 AM by Unbeliever.)
RE: Loopholes
(28-04-2010 08:54 AM)martinb59 Wrote:  No because he was talking about the garden of eden

So Satan was not an angel cast out of Heaven for rebellion against God? What, then, was he?

EDIT: Ah, found some more passages about Satan. Ezekiel 28:12-19 is generally taken as a metaphor for Satan which describes his fallen stature and states that he was in Eden, and Isaiah 14:12-14 states that he rebelled against God and was cast down for it.

Ezekiel 28:12-19 Wrote:12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Isaiah 14:12-14 Wrote:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 09:28 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
"15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

How does something immutably perfect, become corrupted?
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 10:03 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
(28-04-2010 09:28 AM)Ceryle Wrote:  "15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

How does something immutably perfect, become corrupted?

Let's walk through this shall we? According to the Bible God is the only one that is perfect. Angels are created beings with free will. The verse says ""15Thou wast perfect in thy ways FROM the day that thou wast created, TILL iniquity was found in thee." Says nothing about immutability, what it says is you were perfect until you were not perfect.
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 10:05 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
Precisely, how do you corrupt that which is perfect?

If it became corrupted, then obviously it wasn't perfect; which contradicts what is being said.
Quote this message in a reply
28-04-2010, 10:16 AM
 
RE: Loopholes
(28-04-2010 10:05 AM)Ceryle Wrote:  Precisely, how do you corrupt that which is perfect?

If it became corrupted, then obviously it wasn't perfect; which contradicts what is being said.

No you said immutable in your post. It's like throwing a perfect game in baseball until the 8th inning until someone gets a hit. Or rolling 11 strikes in bowling and missing the last one. You were perfect until you were not perfect. Let's say you have never cheated on your wife, and then you do, you were faithful until you were not faithful.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: