Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy
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24-03-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy
(24-03-2013 05:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Philosophy deals with such question as "What is a human?" "What is freedom?" "Is human free?"
Sounds like a boring crap!
Actually, that's what pointy headed intellectuals in universities waste tax dollars pontificating. Real philosophy is used by people every day. People who become atheist and ponder the question of whether or not they should tell their 85 year old religious parents that they've shed religion. It's used by people who wonder if they should take the wallet they've found on the park bench or find its owner. It's used by average, ordinary people to help decide matters of ethics every day.

Pity is that those pointy headed intellectuals in universities never seem to bother with wondering whether or not being paid with stolen money is ethical.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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26-03-2013, 03:21 AM
RE: Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy
(24-03-2013 05:47 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 05:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Philosophy deals with such question as "What is a human?" "What is freedom?" "Is human free?"
Sounds like a boring crap!
Actually, that's what pointy headed intellectuals in universities waste tax dollars pontificating. Real philosophy is used by people every day. People who become atheist and ponder the question of whether or not they should tell their 85 year old religious parents that they've shed religion. It's used by people who wonder if they should take the wallet they've found on the park bench or find its owner. It's used by average, ordinary people to help decide matters of ethics every day.

Pity is that those pointy headed intellectuals in universities never seem to bother with wondering whether or not being paid with stolen money is ethical.
If you had read the rest of the post, you'd see these questions are very important at preventing totalitarian regimes. Or recognizing them if they are disguised. Much of the everyday questions you mention are solvable by philosophy as well.

As for the universities, USA has a very special industry of universities without students, called think tanks. These are full of intellectuals who basically become all the bureaucrats of Washington. Actual universities are not that much better. Students there are not learning to think, but to follow an ideology. They're always presented a framework, in which that ideology works. Which implies it works everywhere. I wouldn't trust anyone's ideology, unless he shows me where its usefulness begins and where it ends. No truth is universally valid, all truths are just puzzle pieces in a greater jigsaw of universal Truth.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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26-03-2013, 08:55 AM
RE: Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy
(26-03-2013 03:21 AM)Luminon Wrote:  If you had read the rest of the post, you'd see these questions are very important at preventing totalitarian regimes. Or recognizing them if they are disguised. Much of the everyday questions you mention are solvable by philosophy as well.

As for the universities, USA has a very special industry of universities without students, called think tanks. These are full of intellectuals who basically become all the bureaucrats of Washington. Actual universities are not that much better. Students there are not learning to think, but to follow an ideology. They're always presented a framework, in which that ideology works. Which implies it works everywhere. I wouldn't trust anyone's ideology, unless he shows me where its usefulness begins and where it ends. No truth is universally valid, all truths are just puzzle pieces in a greater jigsaw of universal Truth.
I read the entire post. And I agree that those questions are important, although not when answered by most people with philosophy degrees. Like the bureaucrats you mentioned, most of them are government shills who will answer questions only in such a way that their answers aggrandize the state.

Also, if no truth is universal, how is there a universal truth?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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26-03-2013, 09:23 AM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2013 09:29 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy
(26-03-2013 08:55 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Also, if no truth is universal, how is there a universal truth?
All truths or perhaps facts can be true only within their appropriate context. Therefore a universal truth would have to be as great as the universe itself.

I can't show it to you, but there is a certain special something that some professions need to have. Sociologists need sociologic imagination, businessmen need a nose for money and philosophers need to be in touch with the Plato's "world of forms" and so it is with mystics.
Such people report that they can feel there is a great, universal order of things and they can take some ideas from that order and bring them into expression. From these we get concepts like "absolute truth" or "objective morality" without the usual dogmatic and totalitarian meanings, there's simply a kind of experience that makes people feel that way. You can tell it apart from dogmatism by a simple test, that the person does not take it over and presents it as his own, but that it takes over the person and profoundly changes him. One of people who went through this was Einstein:

"It is very difficult to explain this feeling to anyone who is
entirely without it. The individual feels the nothingness of human
desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal
themselves both in nature and the world of thought. He [the
experiencer] looks upon individual existence as a sort of prison and
wants to experience the universe as a single, significant whole"

--Albert Einstein

According to philosophy, this stuff might be real, because it's "humanly accessible". When described so, everyone will imagine the same thing, if they experienced it. So there is a solid triangle of the concept (idea in mind), the word and the experience. It's not like "God" or "perfection", where everyone imagines something different. This is a shared, common experience. It may be the factor that gives people inspiration in whatever they do, resulting in real works of science, art, diplomacy and so on.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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29-03-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy
(21-03-2013 09:42 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Philosophy comes from the Greek philosophia which means love of wisdom.

Philosophy has been an undeniably important part of the human experience for thousands of years.

Yet many people dismiss, dislike, or denounce philosophy.

Why is that?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Look at my signature. It's paradoxical.

People don't love wisdom, by default (think evolution). Human beings, instinctively, for the most part, like to shoot first, ask questions later (thinking evolution: hence why we evolved and are still alive today-- if you were around long enough to figure out if it was truly a predator, you would have subsequently became, likely, lunch).

People don't value, not being wrong (i.e. wisdom); however, they do value being correct. So you have: shoot first, ask questions later, yet only ask questions to justify why shooting was the rational course of action, thus excluding real philosophy (hence why we still have capitalism, religion, immorality, rulers).

Who is likely to reach a conclusion more quickly: The person/people who stop and think about things rationally (philosophically)? Or the person/people who irrationally jump to conclusions? The person/people who don't want to be wrong? Or the person/people who want to be correct?

Then what is likely to happen subsequently, given certain people's love for being correct?

For your answer: look at the world.

The fools outnumber the wise.

You have a large number of people who guessed a long time ago, attempting to convince others and maintain power and control over the people, versus those who have actually thought about things rationally and reached objective conclusions, attempting to convince people to simply stop and think, which is apparently asking a lot.

Guess, who is winning?

That's why.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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10-04-2013, 04:41 PM
RE: Love of Wisdom - Hatred of Philosophy



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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