Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
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09-07-2012, 04:46 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(09-07-2012 08:13 AM)StatiK Wrote:  
(24-06-2012 02:04 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  You would have to be stupid to believe some of the things they say. Trickle down, cut taxes during a time of war and recession. Cut food stamp programs from the poorest people in the nation to give to the richest. Yeah you would have to be stupid.


It's amazing when I see some asshole pull food stamps out of their Gucci purse and then walk out to the parking lot and load groceries into their Escalade.

Ummm ... yeah. I don't believe you've ever seen such a thing.

(09-07-2012 09:02 AM)StatiK Wrote:  I also think Florida's drug testing on welfare recipients is a good idea. *shrug* It just makes sense to me.

You sound like you think drug testing does not incur costs. Florida's welfare drug tests cost more money than state saves, data shows.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-07-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
Let's just say I'm not as in favor of mandatory drug testing as I am for ending this ridiculous and costly "war on drugs" that tears families apart. If I have to be taxed, I'd rather that my tax dollars go to ensuring that someone who "needs financial help" isn't spending it on drugs rather than just contributing to their habit.
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09-07-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(09-07-2012 04:48 PM)StatiK Wrote:  Let's just say I'm not as in favor of mandatory drug testing as I am for ending this ridiculous and costly "war on drugs" that tears families apart. If I have to be taxed, I'd rather that my tax dollars go to ensuring that someone who "needs financial help" isn't spending it on drugs rather than just contributing to their habit.

Looks like 2-3% might be doing just that. How much you willing to spend to weed them out? More than they're receiving in benefits? Doesn't sound cost-effective to me.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-07-2012, 05:02 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(09-07-2012 04:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2012 04:48 PM)StatiK Wrote:  Let's just say I'm not as in favor of mandatory drug testing as I am for ending this ridiculous and costly "war on drugs" that tears families apart. If I have to be taxed, I'd rather that my tax dollars go to ensuring that someone who "needs financial help" isn't spending it on drugs rather than just contributing to their habit.

Looks like 2-3% might be doing just that. How much you willing to spend to weed them out? More than they're receiving in benefits? Doesn't sound cost-effective to me.
But which method will be more beneficial to them in the long run? If you just give people free money then they have no reason to motivate themselves to get off of welfare. For example, I will freely volunteer my time to hand out food at a soup kitchen but I will NOT give money to a homeless guy at a traffic light.
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09-07-2012, 05:14 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(09-07-2012 05:02 PM)StatiK Wrote:  
(09-07-2012 04:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Looks like 2-3% might be doing just that. How much you willing to spend to weed them out? More than they're receiving in benefits? Doesn't sound cost-effective to me.
But which method will be more beneficial to them in the long run? If you just give people free money then they have no reason to motivate themselves to get off of welfare. For example, I will freely volunteer my time to hand out food at a soup kitchen but I will NOT give money to a homeless guy at a traffic light.

You mistakenly assume (like most teaturds, not saying you are one, just noting similarly mistaken assumptions) that people on welfare want to be there. The people I know on welfare (including members of my own family) don't see it as an end-state, they don't want a handout, they want a hand-up. And all of the ones I know are employed, they just don't make enough to feed and house their family.

As far as not giving money to the homeless guy at the traffic light, I agree. I don't give them money either. I give them pints of vodka. As an atheist, you should know better than to try and save people who don't want to be saved. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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10-07-2012, 07:35 AM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(09-07-2012 05:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-07-2012 05:02 PM)StatiK Wrote:  But which method will be more beneficial to them in the long run? If you just give people free money then they have no reason to motivate themselves to get off of welfare. For example, I will freely volunteer my time to hand out food at a soup kitchen but I will NOT give money to a homeless guy at a traffic light.


You mistakenly assume (like most teaturds, not saying you are one, just noting similarly mistaken assumptions) that people on welfare want to be there. The people I know on welfare (including members of my own family) don't see it as an end-state, they don't want a handout, they want a hand-up. And all of the ones I know are employed, they just don't make enough to feed and house their family.

As far as not giving money to the homeless guy at the traffic light, I agree. I don't give them money either. I give them pints of vodka. As an atheist, you should know better than to try and save people who don't want to be saved. Wink



I don't like to speak in generalizations - I know that not everyone on welfare is a freeloader but I'm not speaking from assumptions here, I'm speaking from observations. I'm originally from Washington, D.C. and there are a lot of poor people living in the area that I've known. So many people treat welfare and unemployment like it's a plan of action instead of a temporary "hand up" as you put it.
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10-07-2012, 02:25 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2012 02:28 PM by HDT.)
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(10-07-2012 07:35 AM)StatiK Wrote:  
(09-07-2012 05:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You mistakenly assume (like most teaturds, not saying you are one, just noting similarly mistaken assumptions) that people on welfare want to be there. The people I know on welfare (including members of my own family) don't see it as an end-state, they don't want a handout, they want a hand-up. And all of the ones I know are employed, they just don't make enough to feed and house their family.

As far as not giving money to the homeless guy at the traffic light, I agree. I don't give them money either. I give them pints of vodka. As an atheist, you should know better than to try and save people who don't want to be saved. Wink



I don't like to speak in generalizations - I know that not everyone on welfare is a freeloader but I'm not speaking from assumptions here, I'm speaking from observations. I'm originally from Washington, D.C. and there are a lot of poor people living in the area that I've known. So many people treat welfare and unemployment like it's a plan of action instead of a temporary "hand up" as you put it.
The problem is extreme income inequality and the large lower class. You may very well have known 5000 people personally who abuse welfare and use it as an excuse for laziness and nothing else (and I highly doubt you do), but that number wouldn't even scratch the surface of the total number of people who use social services for the vitality of their families. Therefore it's a moot point. Before ole Ronny Reagan people didn't always assume welfare was going to fund lazy druggies with dark skin. Now it's engrained it us. I am NOT in any way implying that there are racists on this board, but please be aware that the ideas of a "Welfare Queen" being the norm IS rooted in extremely racist motives and therefore should be approached very skeptically and analytically. I never understand how atheists especially pose these anecdotal arguments against welfare and do not see how it's the same argument christians have been using for years to say that atheists are bad people. The argument goes: "I saw a person do ______, and he's a ______; therefore all ______s must do ______." Fill it in with any demographic group you can think of and you can come up with a simple argument that has been used at some point in history to justify action against a group. Understand that even IF you are right, that argument proves nothing.

Also, some people may very well be abusing welfare considering that the US especially, likes to make policies that strongly inhibit them from ever climbing into the middle class. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but rather should be used as a motive to reexamine our approach and see if we're going about it the right way. I don't see how other countries give their people many more benefits in the form of welfare programs and don't see to have as many problems with "welfare abuse" as we seem to perceive that we do. Just something to think about.

"A man who dares waste an hour of his life has not discovered the value of life." - Charles Darwin
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10-07-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
Laziness doesn't know color, HDT. As I said, I speak from observation rather than from assumption. Again, as I said, I am not speaking in generalizations but if you really want to go there and you want to get technical about it then there are far more whites in America living below the poverty level than there are blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. Here is U.S. census data to back it up.

Yes, there is income inequality in a capitalist economic system. This is not new. America has always been and remains to be a land of endless opportunity. If someone feels salty about their financial status then they need to get up off of their ass and do something about it, not ask the taxpayers for a handout. If the welfare system worked as intended and people were getting a 'hand up' then we wouldn't have this enormous lower class.

Lets be real, here. I'm going to speak generally for a moment. Americans feel extremely self-entitled. If your neighbor has a 50 inch HDTV then many people feel that they too should have these things. Doesn't matter what the cost is, doesn't matter if they can afford it. We have credit! We'll pay for it later! So let's buy those new cars, lets buy those designer jeans, let's spend money we don't have. It's the American way. If more people really understood money, if they understood how to manage their finances, then they wouldn't be in that mess. For this reason I feel that education in America contributes directly to people's financial woes.

Being the atheists that we are I'm sure that we all understand the value of teaching kids things like math, science, history, and that sort of thing. So why don't we teach them about personal finance? That just makes a lot of sense to me.
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10-07-2012, 03:31 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
(18-06-2012 03:06 AM)Filox Wrote:  Yes, low IQ and low educations come together a lot of times. Did you ever saw some poor low IQ person with 2 college diplomas? People with high education are usually with higher IQ as well, but it is not the case always. Now, we are generalizing here, because we are talking about the majority of the cases, not minority reports.

I think the article explains it all rather well and it makes perfect sense.
In some ways I.Q. can be fallacious and geared to the prevailing socio economic order.

A study carried out some 50 years ago, by Jensen & Eysenck, relating to I.Q., attempted to denigrate black people by asking questions crafted to do just that.
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10-07-2012, 04:53 PM
RE: Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs
An I.Q. is a hypothetical construct. It's a lot harder to determine any actual level of intelligence but that's why more goes into the process nowadays when labeling people intellectually disabled or genius.

As far as the correlation of "Low IQ" to Conservative belief's, that may exist for several reasons. In parts of America those political ideas still go hand in hand with the belief of thinking what your parents thought is a must. Following that ideology will likely lead to poor critical thinking.

I think there's more too it as people have said, the less educated someone happens to be, the more likely conservative they will be. That's not a matter of higher education because just going to a library and reading often will give one the education. The trend connects from what I've seen to specific issues even. The less educated on a specific issue, the more likely conservative or safe belief's will be held upon it. That's not that I believe all conservative choices on some issues are wrong, they surely are effective in many situations at least on the economic scales.

On the otherhand, I've had this quote lingering around for a long time:
"Conservatism is not the doctrine of the intellectual elite or of the more intelligent segments of the population, but the reverse. By every measure available to us, conservative beliefs are found most frequently among the uniformed, the poorly educated, and the less intelligent" McClosky, H.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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