Low income families
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03-01-2015, 01:33 PM
RE: Low income families
working low income families also tend to work in "shift" work, which can lead to health concerns but can really screw up family life- in particular child care. Not having a set schedule and being at your employers beckon at a moments notice is HARD! especially with children who need supervision, and if that child shoukd happen to be sick- or the sitter is a shift worker- now someone is calling off and risk being fired.

Here's an article that explains it better than I could.
But imagine if you and your wife had no idea what your schedule was going to be....don't know if you get the hours to pay for food- or if you will be called in 10 minutes before it was time to pick your child up at school.

http://talkpoverty.org/2014/08/06/beyond...s-poverty/


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03-01-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: Low income families
(02-01-2015 12:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Libraries are FREE, did I forget to mention that?
So why are these low income families not taking books home for their kids to read?

Probably because of a perpetual cycle of disinterest in reading.

I have a hard time imagining that the reason low income children don't use the library as frequently, is because of a lack of means to get to the library, or the limited availability of books, as if there is this body of poor children looking to read, but can't afford to obtain books.

Parents who are interested in learning, will likely instill that interest in their children, and such parents along with such children, are likely not going to be poor, because having such interest likely belongs to a body of interest, attempting to escape poverty, or to continue the prosperous life one has become accustom to.
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03-01-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: Low income families
(03-01-2015 01:33 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  working low income families also tend to work in "shift" work, which can lead to health concerns but can really screw up family life- in particular child care. Not having a set schedule and being at your employers beckon at a moments notice is HARD!
Even medium income families have these troubles.
My wife used to work in IT as an Operational Engineer. This meant that she needed to be on call. A computer would send a message to her at 2am in the morning, she would wake up, dial in and check the system, then drive into work and fix it, she would get home until 4 or 6am and would be expected back in at work by 9am to do her day job.

I sometimes work late nights and week-end (also an IT professional) in order to get project commitments delivered on time. I don't generally get paid for the extra hours. I am sometimes required to work in a different city. For four months I was living apart from my family, with our youngest only just 1 year old. Work don't supply tea, coffee or cookies. Now that we have kids, my wife got made redundant while on maternity leave and has had much trouble finding appropriate work since. She wants part time work so that she can spend time with the kids as we see it as important to have a significant presence in their lives. But part time IT work has been very hard to find. So I don't think only the low income earners can complain about the impact work has on their lives. Of course I recognise that the stress of not knowing if the bills can be paid makes the low income earners position much harder than mine. And also the stress of not being able to provide the kids things they need to help their future, e.g. books, paper, pencil etc.

(03-01-2015 01:33 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  especially with children who need supervision, and if that child shoukd happen to be sick- or the sitter is a shift worker- now someone is calling off and risk being fired.
This would also be a concern of ours if both of us were working.


(03-01-2015 01:33 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  Here's an article that explains it better than I could.
But imagine if you and your wife had no idea what your schedule was going to be....don't know if you get the hours to pay for food- or if you will be called in 10 minutes before it was time to pick your child up at school.

http://talkpoverty.org/2014/08/06/beyond...s-poverty/
Thanks for the link.
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03-01-2015, 04:16 PM
RE: Low income families
IT work pays pretty well, certainly better than someone working retail, and you mentioned that sometimes you were required to work more, but your basic work week was pretty steady, no? when everyday is a free for all and the pennies arent really adding up, it gets tough.


There was a video around here a few years back about walmart " the high cost of low prices" or something similar. It talked about how Walmart would keep all of its employees at 39 hrs a week, because if they worked 40 hrs regularly then in some places they were considered full time and walmart would have to provide benefits (health insurance, etc). So schedules would be juggled, etc to keep people from ever getting 40 hrs a week. ----thousands of employees. But they would also give them seminars on how to take advantage of the govt system to get perks that the largest employer in the US was too cheap to provide.

I think they get the "biggest dick" award, I refuse to shop there. They employ the most people, they are pulling in the most amount of money, while wildly profitable, they suck in every other regard.


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03-01-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: Low income families
(03-01-2015 04:16 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  They employ the most people
I'm not here to defend wallmart, and I don't want things getting so bad that employees are working in attrocious conditions, but...
If faced with no job and government handouts vs 39 hours a week of paid work. It seems that people are lucky to have work.

It's the thing about minimum wage. If wages are high then cost to run a business is high therefore less business and less jobs therefore high unemployment.

If we look at some third world countries we have some people working 12 hour days for $3 a day which sounds terrible, but they are possibly better off than if there were no jobs. They pay people over there to stand by doors and open them and greet people. I guess its cheaper than maintaining an automatic door.
But at least a person (possibly a family) gets some money.
Somehow they can make it work. Perhaps they live in villages and grow their own food or something, I don't know.

But in a global economy, when our developed nations have high minimum wage then we can't compete. We lose jobs to the other countries which can produce things cheaper.
We can all complain about Nike and their sweatshops, but they are providing jobs in a country where jobs are very scarce, they are developing infrastructure i.g. power, sewerage, roads etc which other businesses can also take advantage of and hence it creates even more jobs.

I'm not really sure where I stand on these things. It's all really complex.
But since I have only lived my own life (outside of poverty) I only have a limited view. I am thankful of my visits to Fiji, Vanuatu, Bangkok, Samoa, Hong Kong.. as they have been a real eye opener, regarding hospitals, roads, schools, houses, wages, even lifestyles. I think most poor people in NZ have a better house than reasonably well off people in Hong Kong. Over there it is a giant concrete block, you have to go to Kowloon Park to see trees. Over here poor people live in houses with a back yard, grass and trees, sky tv, go to movies, pub, etc. It's hard to sympathise with some of them.
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03-01-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: Low income families
(03-01-2015 04:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It's all really complex.

agreed.


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03-01-2015, 08:39 PM
RE: Low income families
this popped up on my facebook feed just now, thought it fitting to share.

http://www.attn.com/stories/210/how-trea...tories-210


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03-01-2015, 08:45 PM
RE: Low income families
(02-01-2015 01:03 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't know about NZ

But here in the US while libraries are free they generally aren't equal across the country.

When I lived in California the libraries I had access to were huge. In poorer areas they were far smaller. But you could only take out 6 books, and you borrowed them for a month.

When we moved to Oregon I had to travel many miles to find a decent library. It made going back and forth during the summer challenging. Eventually I gave up.

Our area recently got a new library but I honestly haven't had time to check it out.

Our last one was located in a shopping mall and was rather appalling.

https://www.overdrive.com/

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04-01-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: Low income families
Quote:If wages are high then cost to run a business is high therefore less business and less jobs therefore high unemployment.

In reality yes. BUT only because people are greedy.
A more correct explanation is: High wages = less profits = great economic equality within society

For low wage people to get higher wages those with a lot of money, share holders and such, have to sacrifice their income, via company profits, and people are inherently selfish. It's easy for them to do that (keep wages low to keep profits high) because they don't see the struggles that minimum wage people go through. Out of sight out of mind.
And they hide behind things like "company profit" (which actually means "share holder profit") and "company profit = more jobs".

When you are making billions, if not tens or hundreds of billions, in profit (not turn over, profit), you can afford to pay your staff a little bit extra.


I think the other argument is that inflation will increase and prices will rise with wages but how can this be when the equality in economic wealth is ever shifting. At some people, for the equality to shift and spread out, you had to have either 1) price increase, 2) wage decrease/stagnation or 3) bit of both.
It's just a matter of big companies sacrificing profits for the sake of the little man. Paying higher wages while keeping consumer goods at the same price.

It will never happen because, as I've said, man is inherently greedy.

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04-01-2015, 11:39 PM
RE: Low income families
(04-01-2015 09:20 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  For low wage people to get higher wages those with a lot of money, share holders and such, have to sacrifice their income, via company profits, and people are inherently selfish. It's easy for them to do that (keep wages low to keep profits high) because they don't see the struggles that minimum wage people go through. Out of sight out of mind.
Do you think it is the company's responsibility to share the profits?
What about when a company goes belly up? What then?
Do the employees sell their own assets to help the company out? Of course they don't. The employees are providing a service for a mutually agreed wage/salary. The employee bears no risk. The shareholders or owners can lose their own investment and sometimes even their personal equity if the business goes under.

If the rich feel they have surplus money and want to give to charity, shouldn't it be up to them to decide what charity they are to give to? If they are giving money to the workers (above the value of the service provided) then that is a form of charity. Wouldn't the money be better off going to an orphanage or perhaps Starship hospital?

Business is business, charity is charity, they are not the same thing. If workers want a better lot in life they need to work for it, perhaps spend more time getter further education, perhaps starting up their own business, perhaps investing themselves.

Who is it that deems when a person is rich enough? Who is it that deems how excess money ought to be spent?
When you go shopping, don't you look for bargains? Don't you look for value for money? It's only natural to pay market rates for things, why should a business pay higher than that, unless of course they see some benefit in it for the business.
It's the CEO's job to make the business profitable. If charity is to be given then each shareholder/owner can choose how to spend their own personal profits however they feel they want to.

(04-01-2015 09:20 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's just a matter of big companies sacrificing profits for the sake of the little man.
It's not a businesses responsibility to address the social economic gap. It's a business responsibility to continue and grow and to turn a profit. Dealing with social issues is the government responsibility.
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