Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
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30-01-2014, 09:11 PM
Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
Tried many options but they are water off a ducks back.
One conversation I think made some progress with a creationist friend, took a little liberties on definitions., went like this.

Do you agree Chihuahuas were a result from selective breeding from dogs ultimately from wolves. (that's evolution: "the gradual development of something.").

Do we have any missing link wolf/Chihuahuas, a dog breed exactly in-between.:
(NO: In a linear evolution the in between stages are bred out.)

Did there have to be a female and male Chihuahua randomly born of a wolf, for a Chihuahua to exist ?

So now he believes evolution is true (as I've defined it), just not apelike to man evolution, that's work in progress, at least evolution is no longer a rejected term.

Getting a theist to give up God is not do-able, they have to come to that place themselves, but getting them off the crackpot young earth agenda is do-able.
there must be rational thoughts we can seed them with.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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30-01-2014, 09:24 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
(30-01-2014 09:11 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Tried many options but they are water off a ducks back.
One conversation I think made some progress with a creationist friend, took a little liberties on definitions., went like this.

Do you agree Chihuahuas were a result from selective breeding from dogs ultimately from wolves. (that's evolution: "the gradual development of something.").

Do we have any missing link wolf/Chihuahuas, a dog breed exactly in-between.:
(NO: In a linear evolution the in between stages are bred out.)

Did there have to be a female and male Chihuahua randomly born of a wolf, for a Chihuahua to exist ?

So now he believes evolution is true (as I've defined it), just not apelike to man evolution, that's work in progress, at least evolution is no longer a rejected term.

Getting a theist to give up God is not do-able, they have to come to that place themselves, but getting them off the crackpot young earth agenda is do-able.
there must be rational thoughts we can seed them with.

You're exactly right! You can't just deconvert them....but you CAN give them something to think about!

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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30-01-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
You might take a look at this interesting experiment, Sporehux:

Animal evolution during domestication: the domesticated fox as a model

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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30-01-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
I once took advantage of a creationist who had an infection in order to get her to accept evolution and do creationism. She had an MS infection and asked me what it was and how to treat it. I told her it was staph that evolved a resistance to Methacillin so she had a choice been denying evolution and using Methacillin or accepting that it evolved and using Clindamycin and being cured. Guess what she chose Smile

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30-01-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
I just tried with my mother in-law at dinner tonight and it did not turn out well. I got frustrated with her not caring to hear any facts behind the science, and then pretty pissed when she finished by telling my wife that "he is just looking for god with all these questions for me" WTF. She just does not want to entertain any idea of coming from apes as she puts it, and she did not like it when I told her she is one. I have to stop if I want our relationship to be peaceful!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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30-01-2014, 10:43 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
I'm trying this as long term experiment now, forget the
God issue and human creation stuff, just get this particular YEC to accept evolution for tangible science.
Such as Cats, dogs, corn, cabbage etc.
Things his preacher could not dispute.

To believe in Noah he has to accept that all the races of humans on earth evolved from Noahs family. That went over his head but ill revisit it once I figure a simplistic way to explain it and weaponize it.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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30-01-2014, 10:51 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2014 10:59 PM by Phil Hill.)
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
Kurt Wise is the only honest creationist. He has a PhD in paleontology but admits he is a YEC because of the bible not because there is any evidence.

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30-01-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
(30-01-2014 10:51 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  Kurt Wise is the only honest creationist. He has a PhD in paleontology but admits he is a Yes because of the bible not because there is any evidence.

YEC...?


I can see where you might call him "honest" for admitting that his faith rests only on the "word of the babble", yes-- but I just can't see that position as being intellectually honest. Your thoughts?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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30-01-2014, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2014 11:04 PM by Phil Hill.)
Re: RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
(30-01-2014 10:54 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 10:51 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  Kurt Wise is the only honest creationist. He has a PhD in paleontology but admits he is a Yes because of the bible not because there is any evidence.

YEC...?


I can see where you might call him "honest" for admitting that his faith rests only on the "word of the babble", yes-- but I just can't see that position as being intellectually honest. Your thoughts?

That's why I said honest about his beliefs not about his education. He was honest enough to tell his professor (Stephen J. Gould) about his beliefs but I imagine Gould just rolled his eyes.

EDIT: As far as him seeing the evidence for evolution and staying a YEC, no I wouldn't call it being intellectually honest nor would I consider him a scientist (since he ignores the scientific method) but I will say he compartmentalizes his beliefs extremely well.

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30-01-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: Lubricating theists out of Anti-evolution
(30-01-2014 10:59 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  
(30-01-2014 10:54 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  YEC...?


I can see where you might call him "honest" for admitting that his faith rests only on the "word of the babble", yes-- but I just can't see that position as being intellectually honest. Your thoughts?

That's why I said honest about his beliefs not about his education. He was honest enough to tell his professor (Stephen J. Gould) about his beliefs but I imagine Gould just rolled his eyes.

EDIT: As far as him seeing the evidence for evolution and staying a YEC, no I wouldn't call it being intellectually honest nor would I consider him a scientist (since he ignores the scientific method) but I will say he compartmentalizes his beliefs extremely well.

OK , and can I safely assume that the "Yes" that I bolded in your post and asked about above is a typo that was meant to denote "YEC"? I am not being cheeky, and I know you are posting from a phone (first thing I do with a phone is turn fucking autocorrect the FUCK OFF). Just trying to clarify.

THx, and Cheers. Thumbsup

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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