MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
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03-03-2015, 06:32 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:19 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 05:08 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  You've got nothing different to say than any other theist. I don't know why you think you will have any more influence than anyone else who has tried.

I just feel like I was making a valid and important point to know when not to know.

its a great point, one all creationists should embrace, because their very belief is based on faith, the belief in something without evidence. Their very religion is based on faith, for if it had evidence it wouldn't require faith, because it would simply be fact. The belief in the unknown, a transcendental world...sounds so ...well made up, perhaps because it is. If only they knew what they don't know.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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03-03-2015, 06:39 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:19 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I just feel like I was making a valid and important point to know when not to know.

Yes

It is true that there are things 'We' don't know, it is also true that there are, however, a lot of things we do know. Smile


So... Is there a big, green tentacle-y being from beyond the veil of time and space? We don't know.

Of course, the possible answer to such a question is "How might we check?".


Much cheers to all.
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03-03-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 05:30 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Sounds like you're agnostic theist. Believe in god, but don't claim knowledge of a god's existence.

Also, it was said that due to the scientifically explainable and predoctable, natural causes behind the complexity of the cosmos, it seems more likely that a god doesn't exist.

Your follow up was basically "complexity, there for god!" Even though it was already pointed out that everything we examine follows natural laws. There has been no evidence of any outside influence on these physics at work... So that rules out miracles; god doesn't appear to actually intervene, ever. Design is also out the window when you examine the really poorly designed parts of life (giraffe vocal chords and such.)

If you believe that God started the universe and doesn't currently interact with it, or that god IS the universe and it's workings... Well then he's either an unprovable fable or a mislabeled universe. In either case he's not a personal god, and in the latter, he doesn't even have intent or personality.

Also, if god made the universe and doesn't interact with it, he needn't be omnipotent or omniscient. He could be a grunt that works on a universe assembly line... A nobody.

I know I dont know what god is but something made natural law some force and the universe, it had a begging.
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03-03-2015, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2015 07:05 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 04:20 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I am MC Yo Wassup. I am a 54 y/o rapper from Tucson Arizona.

You're not very good. ... Now if you had flipped the basketball over your shoulder and swish with your back to the board. That'd've been cool.

#sigh
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03-03-2015, 06:50 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 05:36 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Smile As for the fact that neither was yourself nor any other reliable reporters/witnesses other than those as stated singularly within the pages of a certain book. An inamitate object.... on fire... talking? Yes, that is completely outside the realm of possibilty. As is a talking serpent. Snakes can't talk. They don't have the equipment to do so (Outside of Disney films)

(03-03-2015 05:17 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  ..... and it is not blind faith that makes people believe it but 1000s of years of oral tradition that has shaped their lives and I think that needs to be something that is kept in that context and respected.

That... would seem to be nothing more than blind faith. Believing i the things one's parents/grandparents etc say with out actually investigating the information about what they are saying. Consider

Thanks for the welcome do appreciate. The link you provided was disturbing. You admit there were no credible eye witnesses who cant say on way or the other about the events around the life of Moses but yet you claim you know he was a Myth? How does that makes sense brother? No religion is not blind faith but a way of life long tested for generations so it has an abundance of knowledge which it draws from deep into the centuries. Thats why all faiths must be respected.
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03-03-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:39 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 06:19 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I just feel like I was making a valid and important point to know when not to know.

Yes

It is true that there are things 'We' don't know, it is also true that there are, however, a lot of things we do know. Smile


So... Is there a big, green tentacle-y being from beyond the veil of time and space? We don't know.

Of course, the possible answer to such a question is "How might we check?".


Much cheers to all.

You cant check what is to complex to understand so you live life humbly not knowing.
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03-03-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:40 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I know I dont know what god is but something made natural law some force

some "thing" doesn't imply some "one". Saying you believe there is a reason or cause for the universe we know doesn't provide any reason to label that "god".

Quote:and the universe, it had a beg[in]ing.

The universe as we know and understand it appears to have had a beginning at the big bang. We are currently unable to penetrate back any further than that. That's where we have to say "we don't know".

There are a number of hypotheses and the people who study this are looking for ways to test ideas to try to weed out ones that are false. Jumping to the conclusion that it was caused by a god is not justified since there is no actual evidence for that. Stick with "I don't know", don't assume any answer, and come over to the dark side! We have cake.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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03-03-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:19 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 05:08 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  You've got nothing different to say than any other theist. I don't know why you think you will have any more influence than anyone else who has tried.

I just feel like I was making a valid and important point to know when not to know.

No, sorry, I don't see your point as valid; it's rather moot. I don't know if something one might possibly refer to as having "god-like" qualities exists or not. I've never seen evidence of its existence. If proof were proffered, I may be swayed. Still, it would depend largely on said proof.

Saying that I cannot say for certain therefore god, is a conclusion I cannot rationally jump to.

That's the beginning and end of my agnosticism. My atheism comes from that I do know all religions were started by people (mostly male) as a way to offer explanations to what they couldn't understand, to offer comfort to the bereaved, or to control the populace with stories that are magical of origin. Most of it can be chalked up to a game of Chinese Whispers.

The story of Moses is myth. Hundreds of thousands of people wandering through the desert and not one shred of archeological evidence left behind? Facepalm


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-03-2015, 06:59 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:50 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  No religion is not blind faith

Yes, it is.

Quote: but a way of life long tested for generations so it has an abundance of knowledge

Longevity doesn't add credence. People long believed many things that turned out to be wrong.

Quote:which it draws from deep into the centuries. Thats why all faiths must be respected.

No, faith is not a reliable way of determining truth since it supports anything and everything equally; it deserves ridicule, not respect. Some specific ideas from various religions may deserve respect but only where they can be demonstrated to be useful in the real world. Any ideas like that can be kept without all of the unsupported baggage.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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03-03-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:50 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 05:36 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Smile As for the fact that neither was yourself nor any other reliable reporters/witnesses other than those as stated singularly within the pages of a certain book. An inamitate object.... on fire... talking? Yes, that is completely outside the realm of possibilty. As is a talking serpent. Snakes can't talk. They don't have the equipment to do so (Outside of Disney films)


That... would seem to be nothing more than blind faith. Believing i the things one's parents/grandparents etc say with out actually investigating the information about what they are saying. Consider

Thanks for the welcome do appreciate. The link you provided was disturbing. You admit there were no credible eye witnesses who cant say on way or the other about the events around the life of Moses but yet you claim you know he was a Myth? How does that makes sense brother? No religion is not blind faith but a way of life long tested for generations so it has an abundance of knowledge which it draws from deep into the centuries. Thats why all faiths must be respected.

I provided you this info already.

Faith - the belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. A belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Religion - The embracement of delusion.

Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith-based claims are knowledge claims. For example, "I have faith that jesus christ will heal my sickness because it says so in Luke" is a knowledge claim. The utterer of this statement is asserting jesus will heal her. Those who make faith claims are professing to know something about the external world. For example, when someone says "jesus walked on water" (matthew 14:22-33), that person is claiming TO KNOW there was an historical figure names jesus and that he, unaided by technology, literally walked across the surface of the water. This is a knowledge claim...an objective statement of fact.

Your religious beliefs typically depend on the community in which you were raised or lived. The spiritual experiences of people in ancient greece, medieval japan or 21st century saudia arabia do not lead to belief in christianity. It seems, therefore, that religious belief very likely tracks not truth but social conditioning.

Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth. Here are five points believers/non believers should be able to agree upon.

1) There are different faith traditions.
2) Different faith traditions make different truth claims.
3) The truth claims of some faith traditions contradict the truth claims of other faith traditions. For example, Muslims believe muhammad (570-632) was the last prophet (Sura 33:40). Mormons believe Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who lived after muhammad was a prophet.
4) It cannot both be the case that muhammad was the last prophet, and someone who lived after him was also a prophet.
5) Therefore: At LEAST one of these claims must be false....perhaps both....

it is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way.

No, faith does not need to be respected.

They are ALL ridiculous, some much worse than others...

http://www.breatharian.com/ claims you dont need food to live, just magical energy...you respect them?

Xtianity? an invisible super genie floating in nothingness decides to create 400+ billion planets (that is how many the Hubble telescope can see) until it got one juuuuust right, then gathered up a handful of dirt and blew into it, creating man!...and this makes sense to you? Then he decided to sponsor one specific group (who conveniently wrote the fictional book called the bible asserting this) in a remote armpit of middle east, and bestow his gift upon the uneducated goat herders who were busy slaughtering each other.....not the Egyptians who were powerful and advanced, not the Chinese who were way past these flea bitten turds of humanity...no, he hovered around the middle east...the butt crack of the world….or so the story goes....any of this sound made up to you? because it is.

This is a fairy tale, a fairy tale based on a discredited, easily dismantled and disproven fictional book, filled with allegorical writings by communities of followers who penned them under more known author's names, pseudepigrapha by definition.

Mormonism? In Mormonism, men and women have the potential of becoming gods. President Lorenzo Snow said, "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state of godhood, a person must first become a good Mormon, pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, follow various laws and ordinances of the church, and be found worthy. At this point, they receive a temple recommend, whereupon the Mormon is allowed to enter their sacred temples in order to go through a set of secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into the highest level of heaven.3 For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then he or she will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.

How about Scientology? You respect them? The official Scientology organization is composed of a number of “levels”. One begins as a “preclear” & works their way up. One must purchase virtually every service crucial to advancement directly from the "church" & at staggering prices. "Auditing", for example, is purchased in 12½ hour blocks, costing anywhere from $200-$750 for introductory sessions to between $8,000 & $9,000 for advanced sessions. Basically, Scientology claims to possess exclusive knowledge of the path to religious redemption & then charges obscene amounts of money for every tiny incremental step towards this end. $380,000 is a conservative estimate for the total cost of moving all the way up the Scientology hierarchal ladder.

At level OT III (Operating Thetan Level 3), some very strange & fiercely guarded secrets are imparted upon worthy members who have paid enough money to advance to such a level (and no, this isn't a joke): The evil alien ruler Xenu killed millions of aliens (Thetans) from around the universe by kidnapping them, bringing them to earth in golden DC-8 “space-planes”, stacking them around volcanoes & blowing them up by dropping “h-bombs” into the volcanoes. Scientologists believe the souls of these aliens (these souls are "Body Thetans") were captured, brainwashed & released; they then attached themselves to our ancestors (and according to Scientology’s belief in Thetan immortality, they also attached to us during “past lives”) & cause many of our mental & physical ills to this day. Auditing is said to “clear” us of these Body Thetans as well as the “mental implants” they supposedly impose on our minds.

I could go on and on, the point is, they are all ridiculous, childish, made up fairy tales that can be traced back to their fabrication, inception and assimilation. God was created by man, in man's image, and has been for thousands of years...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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