MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
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03-03-2015, 07:48 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 06:53 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 06:40 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I know I dont know what god is but something made natural law some force

some "thing" doesn't imply some "one". Saying you believe there is a reason or cause for the universe we know doesn't provide any reason to label that "god".

Quote:and the universe, it had a beg[in]ing.

The universe as we know and understand it appears to have had a beginning at the big bang. We are currently unable to penetrate back any further than that. That's where we have to say "we don't know".

There are a number of hypotheses and the people who study this are looking for ways to test ideas to try to weed out ones that are false. Jumping to the conclusion that it was caused by a god is not justified since there is no actual evidence for that. Stick with "I don't know", don't assume any answer, and come over to the dark side! We have cake.

No Brother dont get me twisted I agree with you that yes we cant just to the conclusion that it was god or any higher power since we do not know. It was only most likely do to god because of the complexity of it all and we need to admit there is a slight chance it wasnt I do agree with you that we cant flat out state that we do know for sure it was god.
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03-03-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
OH brother.... I dont even know what to say.
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03-03-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 04:20 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I am MC Yo Wassup. I am a 54 y/o rapper from Tucson Arizona. I have been on youtube for three years now and have mostly stayed in the hip hop community. However recently I made my first video concerning the debate that the atheists waste peoples time with. I dont claim to know anything but neither should you claim you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrPEeq9d_TA

I would like to see what the Atheist community here has to say now that I presented this argument to you all. Does this change anyones mind?

SHOUT OUT SETH LOVE YOU BROTHER but you gotta get humbler yo, its okay to no know.

Welcome to the forum. Smile

I'll try to explain from another approach.

There's a difference between knowledge of, and belief in. As far as the knowledge of god's existence or nonexistence is concerned, we're all agnostic, yourself included. The difference between theists and atheists - theists believe that a god exists, while atheists lack that belief. It's not complicated at all.

That said, I think this is an attempt to 'level the playing field' between atheists and theists, putting blind faith on the same par with sound reasoning and critical thinking. As I said, they're completely different things.

So, forget about knowledge. Why do you believe there is a god? Inquiring minds want to know. Drinking Beverage
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03-03-2015, 08:12 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2015 08:17 PM by Free.)
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 05:27 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  but I will leave you with this food for thought, would it not be more dishonest to admit we know for sure something isnt true when we dont?

No, it is far more honest to admit that something is not true when there is no evidence for any truth behind it.

Imagine a perfectly innocent person being accused of a very bad crime. Now, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the person committed the crime. There is no evidence at all for the police to even charge the person with a crime, let alone convict him.

All efforts to prove the person committed the crime resulted in no evidence against him at all. In fact, all the evidence available conclusively demonstrated that it was absolutely impossible for the person to have committed the crime.

Do you therefore think it is reasonable and honest to continue to hold suspicion against this innocent person just because he was a suspect?

We are all judgemental. Each and every day we make decisions on this, that, or the other thing. In reality, we have all conditioned ourselves to make judgements on a daily basis.

We will make judgements of given situations that always result in a "yea or nay" result. If one of our children does something wrong, but will not admit it despite the evidence demonstrating that he actually did it, we will judge him guilty even if we don't have the 100% conclusive proof of him admitting his guilt.

Why do we do this? We do this because we are being honest with the situation. Could we be wrong? Sure we can, but when the evidence demonstrates that we are correct we still must make a judgement. We need to arrive at a resolution based upon the available evidence, and the resolution must be arrived at honestly.

This very same situation should be applied to the question of the existence of any kind of God. Just because it is impossible to prove non-existence is no excuse to not be honest regarding non existence, and therefore it is no excuse to not make a judgement based upon non existence and state, "God does not exist."

Now, if you were to say something to the effect of, "But you cannot prove that God does not exist," well that is absolutely true, but also it is absolutely not required, nor is it possible. You may then say, "But since you cannot prove God does not exist, then it's possible he does exist," and my answer to that is this;

In order for something to even qualify as being possible, then there must be evidence to support the possibility. Therefore, you need to provide evidence to demonstrate that the existence of God is even possible.

And now you may see what my point here actually is. Since you, nor anyone else, has not even demonstrated that the existence of God is even possible, then would it not be honest of me to remain in my default state and say that the existence of God has never been demonstrated as being possible, therefore, the existence of god is not possible?

Why make a claim that something is possible when there's no evidence to support the possibility? Is that in any way honest? How is that any different from accusing someone of committing a crime when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support the accusation?

Therefore, when I make the positive claim that God does not exist, it is an honest claim based upon the complete and total lack of any evidence of existence, and the complete and total lack of any evidence of the possibility of existence.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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03-03-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 07:52 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  OH brother.... I dont even know what to say.




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-03-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 05:27 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  ... would it not be more dishonest to admit we know for sure something isnt true when we dont?

Honesty is overrated. Drinking Beverage

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-03-2015, 08:24 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
Day 1 is always the toughest. You have a lot of information being thrown at you and most of it you're probably reading for the first time.

It's going to be a long and hard road, but it's an honest road. It points toward the truth or close as we can get.

Hope you stay long enough to learn all that you didn't know yesterday. And remember tomorrow is only day 2.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-03-2015, 08:29 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 08:06 PM)TheBear Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 04:20 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I am MC Yo Wassup. I am a 54 y/o rapper from Tucson Arizona. I have been on youtube for three years now and have mostly stayed in the hip hop community. However recently I made my first video concerning the debate that the atheists waste peoples time with. I dont claim to know anything but neither should you claim you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrPEeq9d_TA

I would like to see what the Atheist community here has to say now that I presented this argument to you all. Does this change anyones mind?

SHOUT OUT SETH LOVE YOU BROTHER but you gotta get humbler yo, its okay to no know.

Welcome to the forum. Smile

I'll try to explain from another approach.

There's a difference between knowledge of, and belief in. As far as the knowledge of god's existence or nonexistence is concerned, we're all agnostic, yourself included. The difference between theists and atheists - theists believe that a god exists, while atheists lack that belief. It's not complicated at all.

That said, I think this is an attempt to 'level the playing field' between atheists and theists, putting blind faith on the same par with sound reasoning and critical thinking. As I said, they're completely different things.

So, forget about knowledge. Why do you believe there is a god? Inquiring minds want to know. Drinking Beverage

Thanks for the warm welcome. I just feel that the Universe is so complex and so mysterious yet acts in way which cant be random and could come together by happen stance so there must be a force making it happen.... probably
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03-03-2015, 08:49 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 05:06 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I hear you brother thanks for the reply. I am confused by what is an agnostic, atheist I thought they are different opposing beliefs.

Not at all, agnosticism and atheism occupy different philosophical axises. Atheism and theism are opposing metaphysical claims while agnosticism and gnosticism are opposing epistemological standpoints. Agnosticism acknowledges doubt while gnosticism touts certainty. Hence agnostic atheism is not a contradiction but a convergence of philosophical branches: the agnostic label epistemologically clarifies the atheistic metaphysical claim.

Quote:Also I dont think saying "no god exists" is easier to justify I think that its easier to justify seeing our world and universe that there is indeed most likely some sort of higher power but ultimately even though the chances lean massively towards there indeed is a "god' and I feel deep down there must be, I never the less humbly admit that I am not smart enough to know for sure and am willing to admit there is a very slight chance there is not one.

And an agnostic atheist is literally the inverse of what you just described. We are the yin to your yang. And we compose of the majority of those whom claim the atheistic standpoint. So focusing on the issue of certainty will be a misguided approach while engaging this community.

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03-03-2015, 09:15 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 07:48 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  It was only most likely d[ue] to god because of the complexity of it all

How in the world can you judge the probability of it being a god with no actual examples of a god doing anything?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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