MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
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03-03-2015, 10:38 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
So if storms are too complex to understand, then something must be causing them. This can give rise to a belief in the god of storms or you can attempt to understand the natural processes of nature that require a knowledge of chemistry, thermodynamics, meteorology, etc

The universe may seem complex to someone who hasn't studied the fields of physics, calculus, astronomy, cosmology, quantum physics, etc

Just because something is complex doesn't mean we can't understand it. Science has shown us a pathway to discovering the truth about the natural causes in nature.

The universe is natural in the same way a storm is natural. Both complex in their own ways and both understandable when we view them through the lens of science.

I would think a god to be a very complex being and by your own thoughts, this being must have had something that caused it to exist, but as you can see, that kind of thinking leads to an infinite set of God's that caused the previous one to exist.

So the causal idea that a god is required is infinitely incorrect

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-03-2015, 10:38 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:34 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  I honestly figured that see eye to eye with my perspective but ye it'll be tough to get everyone to humbly admit that they can't know everything.

No it won't be because most of us are already there. Read my response to one of your posts back at the bottom of page five.

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03-03-2015, 10:39 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
At work.

I already admitted I don't know every thing. This NOT the same as then saying that I know NOTHING. Tongue
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03-03-2015, 10:48 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:33 PM)Free Wrote:  With no basis either way, how then could there be any possibility?

Yes, we've been through this. Whether or not there is a possibility is not dependent on my ability to identify it.

I do not know that it is possible so I can't say that it is possible.
I do not know that it is impossible so I can't say that it isn't possible.
I don't know.

The fact that I don't have enough information to determine the possibility doesn't mean that it isn't possible, it only means that I don't have enough information to decide the issue.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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03-03-2015, 10:50 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
It is arrogant to think that we aren't humble.

Actually it might simply be ignorant.

When you lack knowledge about a group of people it's better to ask questions instead of assuming characteristics.

If you are wrong about the simple definition of words, imagine what else you could be wrong about.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-03-2015, 10:55 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:48 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 10:33 PM)Free Wrote:  With no basis either way, how then could there be any possibility?

Yes, we've been through this. Whether or not there is a possibility is not dependent on my ability to identify it.

I do not know that it is possible so I can't say that it is possible.
I do not know that it is impossible so I can't say that it isn't possible.
I don't know.

The fact that I don't have enough information to determine the possibility doesn't mean that it isn't possible, it only means that I don't have enough information to decide the issue.

But does this not make the assumption that there is actually any said information in existence?

And is ignorance of what may, or may not, exist merely another way of playing it safe based upon the assumption that the required information actually exists?

In my opinion, when we make assumptions with no evidence, it is no different than a theist assuming the existence of God with no evidence.

It is a belief, not a knowledge.

Consider

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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03-03-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:34 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 08:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Day 1 is always the toughest. You have a lot of information being thrown at you and most of it you're probably reading for the first time.

It's going to be a long and hard road, but it's an honest road. It points toward the truth or close as we can get.

Hope you stay long enough to learn all that you didn't know yesterday. And remember tomorrow is only day 2.

I honestly figured that see eye to eye with my perspective but ye it'll be tough to get everyone to humbly admit that they can't know everything.

Facepalm

Nobody here is asserting that they know everything; you'll need to be heading over to the other side of the camp for that.

Just because we don't know everything, doesn't mean that we don't know things, and to suggest that it does mean that is downright absurd, and to demand that everybody come down to ones own level by pretending that their lack of omniscience translates into a lack of knowledge at all is downright arrogant, so drop the 'humble' act and get to the point.

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03-03-2015, 11:05 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:34 PM)mcyowassup Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 08:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Day 1 is always the toughest. You have a lot of information being thrown at you and most of it you're probably reading for the first time.

It's going to be a long and hard road, but it's an honest road. It points toward the truth or close as we can get.

Hope you stay long enough to learn all that you didn't know yesterday. And remember tomorrow is only day 2.

I honestly figured that see eye to eye with my perspective but ye it'll be tough to get everyone to humbly admit that they can't know everything.

Humbly admit what?!

We're not talking about knowing everything, I thought the discussion was about a deity existing?

I'm still waiting for your definition of what "god" is. You mentioned that you don't subscribe to a "religion" but then you talk of "miracles" and "holy books"

If a magician performs an illusion, do you automatically assume it must be a miracle?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-03-2015, 11:05 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:55 PM)Free Wrote:  But does this not make the assumption that there is actually any said information in existence?

It is a recognition that I haven't proven that no such information exists.

Quote:And is ignorance of what may, or may not, exist merely another way of playing it safe based upon the assumption that the required information actually exists?

I think I'd agree if it read "the assumption that the required information MIGHT exist" or, better, "the fact that the required information has not been found".

Quote:In my opinion, when we make assumptions with no evidence, it is no different than a theist assuming the existence of God with no evidence.

I'm not making an assumption, I'm saying I don't know if any evidence exists. You are making the assumption that the lack of evidence to date means that there can't be any evidence.

Quote:It is a belief, not a knowledge.

You are the one claiming knowledge that no god exists. If you were only saying that you believe that no god exists I wouldn't have any real objections. I agree that the total lack of evidence to date makes it reasonable to believe that. I don't agree that it makes sense to take that last step into knowing that no god exists.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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03-03-2015, 11:14 PM
RE: MC Yo Wassup VS Atheism
(03-03-2015 10:38 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So if storms are too complex to understand, then something must be causing them. This can give rise to a belief in the god of storms or you can attempt to understand the natural processes of nature that require a knowledge of chemistry, thermodynamics, meteorology, etc

The universe may seem complex to someone who hasn't studied the fields of physics, calculus, astronomy, cosmology, quantum physics, etc

Just because something is complex doesn't mean we can't understand it. Science has shown us a pathway to discovering the truth about the natural causes in nature.

The universe is natural in the same way a storm is natural. Both complex in their own ways and both understandable when we view them through the lens of science.

I would think a god to be a very complex being and by your own thoughts, this being must have had something that caused it to exist, but as you can see, that kind of thinking leads to an infinite set of God's that caused the previous one to exist.

So the causal idea that a god is required is infinitely incorrect

God may have a cause who knows. If you study all these fields and learn to understand the complex storm you would likely know less then if you simply experience the complex storm. A man who studies the storm would not be able to be open minded enough to see beyond his classical scientific education a person who knows nothing about the storm and experience it would be able understand that they don't know that the storm is physical and emotional and we can not ever hope to understand it beautiful complexity.
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