MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
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23-06-2014, 05:04 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
I am completely confused about this whole thing from day one. Tell me, how is it possible, that today, when we monitor everything and everyone, some government is not following the air traffic on their sky? Also, no foreign country (USA, Russia or China, they like to do that) was spying on the air traffic of any other country in the world? There are no satellites that are watching the sky and following the air traffic around the globe? You can switch off the communications in an airplane, and *puff* you just disappear from the sky, no one ever can find you? Perfect fucking thing for all the terrorists to know.

All these conspiracy theorists that are saying how everything is controlled and everything is being watched, where are they now?

Anyone who is saying that USA military, Chinese military and even Russian military does not know what happened to this plane probably didn't think things through... The fact that they are not saying anything does not mean they have anything to do with this, they just like to keep their secrets. But to believe that they are blind? Yeah, right...

So, what are the explanations (official ones) that there is no trace of this plane anywhere, no radars, no satellites, no traces... how is it possible in 2014 that such a huge piece of sky is completely blind?

Was it maybe ...

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23-06-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
(23-06-2014 05:04 AM)Filox Wrote:  So, what are the explanations (official ones) that there is no trace of this plane anywhere, no radars, no satellites, no traces... how is it possible in 2014 that such a huge piece of sky is completely blind?

The question is why did people think that unpopulated uncontested regions were monitored by anyone/country.

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23-06-2014, 07:33 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
(23-06-2014 07:21 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 05:04 AM)Filox Wrote:  So, what are the explanations (official ones) that there is no trace of this plane anywhere, no radars, no satellites, no traces... how is it possible in 2014 that such a huge piece of sky is completely blind?

The question is why did people think that unpopulated uncontested regions were monitored by anyone/country.

Indeed. Had the flight actually entered Chinese airspace, you can bet they'd've had a lock on it. It never even got close.

As it was, that huge piece of the sky was mostly over the entirely uninhabited eastern Indian ocean. Why in the world would anyone be watching closely?

As for the conspiracists, they just say the data's all just been hidden deliberately. It's a perfect exemplar of the "no evidence means evidence" school of delusion.

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23-06-2014, 07:48 AM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2014 07:51 AM by Filox.)
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
It just strikes me as weird that we still have some unmonitored pieces of our planet. Now, if you think about it, every rent-a-car car has a GPS inside and you can track it anytime, anywhere, plus, I am sure that they have at least one day old database archive with your GPS coordinates for that day.

And it is perfectly normal for all you that one PLANE does not have something as stupid as GPS device? I thought that airplanes all have much more sophisticated equipment and that a company will always know where their planes are, no matter where they are, who kidnapped it, where it crashed...

Do you know how small a GPS device is and how much does it cost?

Your fucking mobile phone (iPhone) can be traced...

I call major BS on all of this. If it is not BS, then airline companies are about 50 years behind in some parts of technology...

P.S.

Sound-ping-locator is useful if the black-box is in the deep waters (ocean), but could it not also have some sophisticated GPS locater, if it does not fall into the sea? You know, just to find it easier on land? And to have an archive of the planes flight, without having to read the planes on-board computer and the rest of the instruments, just in case there are no more on-board computers and instruments, like now?

Completely illogical...

So, if it was not the Aliens, was it maybe the ...

[Image: d53dd89f8e305384ef41b39d6fd47c39e9d94a36...493de5.jpg]

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23-06-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
I would be surprised if this incident doesn't result in all aircraft over a certain size flying over international waters being required to be fitted with a transponder that communicates a subset of black box recording information.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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23-06-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
Nobody wanted to pay for the upgrades you speak of, somebody has to pay for the satellite internet data the gps tags need to uploaded on.

lessons were not learnt from France 447 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

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23-06-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
(23-06-2014 07:48 AM)Filox Wrote:  It just strikes me as weird that we still have some unmonitored pieces of our planet. Now, if you think about it, every rent-a-car car has a GPS inside and you can track it anytime, anywhere, plus, I am sure that they have at least one day old database archive with your GPS coordinates for that day.

And it is perfectly normal for all you that one PLANE does not have something as stupid as GPS device? I thought that airplanes all have much more sophisticated equipment and that a company will always know where their planes are, no matter where they are, who kidnapped it, where it crashed...

Do you know how small a GPS device is and how much does it cost?

Your fucking mobile phone (iPhone) can be traced...

I call major BS on all of this. If it is not BS, then airline companies are about 50 years behind in some parts of technology...

P.S.

Sound-ping-locator is useful if the black-box is in the deep waters (ocean), but could it not also have some sophisticated GPS locater, if it does not fall into the sea? You know, just to find it easier on land? And to have an archive of the planes flight, without having to read the planes on-board computer and the rest of the instruments, just in case there are no more on-board computers and instruments, like now?

Completely illogical...

So, if it was not the Aliens, was it maybe the ...

[Image: d53dd89f8e305384ef41b39d6fd47c39e9d94a36...493de5.jpg]

Except that is not how GPS works. GPS triangulates satellite signals and over a fully uninhabited part of the planet there is no need to hang geosynchronous satellites. Everything costs money and frankly the cost of covering the Indian Ocean in a GPS grid is way more expensive than could ever be justified.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-06-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
(23-06-2014 08:01 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 07:48 AM)Filox Wrote:  It just strikes me as weird that we still have some unmonitored pieces of our planet. Now, if you think about it, every rent-a-car car has a GPS inside and you can track it anytime, anywhere, plus, I am sure that they have at least one day old database archive with your GPS coordinates for that day.

And it is perfectly normal for all you that one PLANE does not have something as stupid as GPS device? I thought that airplanes all have much more sophisticated equipment and that a company will always know where their planes are, no matter where they are, who kidnapped it, where it crashed...

Do you know how small a GPS device is and how much does it cost?

Your fucking mobile phone (iPhone) can be traced...

I call major BS on all of this. If it is not BS, then airline companies are about 50 years behind in some parts of technology...

P.S.

Sound-ping-locator is useful if the black-box is in the deep waters (ocean), but could it not also have some sophisticated GPS locater, if it does not fall into the sea? You know, just to find it easier on land? And to have an archive of the planes flight, without having to read the planes on-board computer and the rest of the instruments, just in case there are no more on-board computers and instruments, like now?

Completely illogical...

So, if it was not the Aliens, was it maybe the ...

[Image: d53dd89f8e305384ef41b39d6fd47c39e9d94a36...493de5.jpg]

Except that is not how GPS works. GPS triangulates satellite signals and over a fully uninhabited part of the planet there is no need to hang geosynchronous satellites. Everything costs money and frankly the cost of covering the Indian Ocean in a GPS grid is way more expensive than could ever be justified.

OK, maybe I don know too much about GPS technology, but it does not need to be GPS. I only used it for an example. It is just amazing that we can loose an airplane, it this day and age, where everything is being recorded and everything is digitalized and BigBrothered and shit...

Also, there is no need to cover the whole Indian ocean, but the airline corridors are a much smaller area... When there is a will, there is a way. The technology is surely there.

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23-06-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
(23-06-2014 09:51 AM)Filox Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 08:01 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except that is not how GPS works. GPS triangulates satellite signals and over a fully uninhabited part of the planet there is no need to hang geosynchronous satellites. Everything costs money and frankly the cost of covering the Indian Ocean in a GPS grid is way more expensive than could ever be justified.

OK, maybe I don know too much about GPS technology, but it does not need to be GPS. I only used it for an example. It is just amazing that we can loose an airplane, it this day and age, where everything is being recorded and everything is digitalized and BigBrothered and shit...

Airline regulation is fairly conservative. Any constant locator beacon is guaranteed to be very expensive - the cost would be insane (a much denser satellite constellation than exists, and not-insignificant on-board costs to each plane).

Even with that, there are plans to upgrade current black-box infrastructure (mostly radio signals) with periodic satellite updates (ie native failsafe ones in the box itself). This is - once again - hugely expensive and complicated. International air regulations have been working at it for many years, and the full rollout will take another four or five.

Only the American and Russian satellite networks have (nominal) global coverage, and even so they're much denser over North America and Russia respectively. As the European and Chinese networks are built up the coverage in remote areas will get a little better, but it's entirely pointless to dedicate two or three satellites to hang low over the southern oceans.

Most satellites only broadcast; most of the rest can answer signals (indirect passive tracking). Tracking objects - especially actively tracking objects that aren't signalling - is very hard. Almost impossible. With a dedicated spy satellite you might be able to cover a single moving object - within a narrow area under optimal conditions.

(23-06-2014 09:51 AM)Filox Wrote:  Also, there is no need to cover the whole Indian ocean, but the airline corridors are a much smaller area... When there is a will, there is a way. The technology is surely there.

Yes, it is. It would be stupidly expensive and provide little to no benefit.

The plane didn't pass over busy air corridors. Once it left Indonesian airspace there was literally nothing in its path; why would anyone be looking out there?

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23-06-2014, 01:26 PM
RE: MH370 confirmed as, all souls lost at sea.
(23-06-2014 10:16 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-06-2014 09:51 AM)Filox Wrote:  OK, maybe I don know too much about GPS technology, but it does not need to be GPS. I only used it for an example. It is just amazing that we can loose an airplane, it this day and age, where everything is being recorded and everything is digitalized and BigBrothered and shit...

Airline regulation is fairly conservative. Any constant locator beacon is guaranteed to be very expensive - the cost would be insane (a much denser satellite constellation than exists, and not-insignificant on-board costs to each plane).

Even with that, there are plans to upgrade current black-box infrastructure (mostly radio signals) with periodic satellite updates (ie native failsafe ones in the box itself). This is - once again - hugely expensive and complicated. International air regulations have been working at it for many years, and the full rollout will take another four or five.

Only the American and Russian satellite networks have (nominal) global coverage, and even so they're much denser over North America and Russia respectively. As the European and Chinese networks are built up the coverage in remote areas will get a little better, but it's entirely pointless to dedicate two or three satellites to hang low over the southern oceans.

Most satellites only broadcast; most of the rest can answer signals (indirect passive tracking). Tracking objects - especially actively tracking objects that aren't signalling - is very hard. Almost impossible. With a dedicated spy satellite you might be able to cover a single moving object - within a narrow area under optimal conditions.

(23-06-2014 09:51 AM)Filox Wrote:  Also, there is no need to cover the whole Indian ocean, but the airline corridors are a much smaller area... When there is a will, there is a way. The technology is surely there.

Yes, it is. It would be stupidly expensive and provide little to no benefit.

The plane didn't pass over busy air corridors. Once it left Indonesian airspace there was literally nothing in its path; why would anyone be looking out there?

Well OK, now that you've put it that way... Jeez...

Big Grin

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