MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-04-2012, 09:23 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 08:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 08:09 AM)frankiej Wrote:  I though that morality from god is rather objective... it would be odd that the word of God changes with society...hmm.
Morality is subjective in nature.

God wants us to extol empathy and suppress selfishness. The objective morality mentioned in the Bible is for general use. It is a type of behavior we are supposed to follow.

Is it always 100% wrong to lie? No.
Is it always 100% wrong to kill? No.
Is it always 100% wrong to steal? No.

God gives us general morality and how to behave as a society.

On a different note, God's morality is autonomous.

Is it always 100% wrong to treat another human being as your property? YES!

This is a no-brainer, KC.

The point quoted by Savage that Sam Harris made (sorry, Ghost) is valid: If the Bible gets it wrong on slavery (i.e. doesn't condemn it), then it's clearly the work of fallible human beings and we can't trust it on anything.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like cufflink's post
30-04-2012, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2012 09:30 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:23 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Is it always 100% wrong to treat another human being as your property? YES!

This is a no-brainer, KC.

You are absolutely correct, but that's not what I'm saying.

Slavery was a part of the society and culture. People are imperfect; therefore, this popular "sin" couldn't be abolished during that time. God gave instructions on how to treat your slaves.
(30-04-2012 09:22 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 08:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God wants us to extol empathy and suppress selfishness. The objective morality mentioned in the Bible is for general use. It is a type of behavior we are supposed to follow.
Slavery and honor killings are moral behavior we are supposed to follow? Why is it that we humans can see the error in this but God never seemed to care about sacrificing your daughter who's hymen broke carrying buckets of drinking water. Shouldn't God intervene in the stupidity of man like he has supposed done before? Not only did he allow it happen but it's written in the Bible as God's word. Not only does he allow but he condoned it. IMO making God's morals beneath mine.
Again, their morality was different than ours. This was acceptable behavior according to their society.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-04-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
kingschosen - I'm sure you realize that is your interpretation, and not the general thought process of many people who also call themselves Christians. I'm not certain, but I don't think you're a literalist per se, but many are. The point of the video still remains - at no point does the Bible, which is purported to be a divinely inspired and/or divinely written book (again, depending on who you ask), condemn slavery or teach that it is an immoral practice.

Slavery is either moral or immoral - this isn't a question of whether it was accepted in a society or not. Was it moral because it was accepted? No. And it's that simple. So - did God, who supposedly wrote this book, ever once say "hey - don't own people"? No. It's funny how the morality of an all-knowing, never-changing, perfect being tends to adapt to the social and political outlooks of the leaders of the tribes to which he is supposedly communicating.

But as was stated in the video, people do not adhere to the instructions about slavery, shellfish, stoning unruly children, etc - but they justify their homosexual bigotry with verses from the same books.

And God/Jesus/Whoever is, as always, silent. He leaves it up to people like you or other believers to interpret, twist, change, and re-interpret ancient texts written in much different times and somehow try to apply some of it to us today. Nobody's taking it out of context. I know many people who will tell me straight up that if it's in the Bible, they believe in it. But they'll squirm when I bring up slavery, because they know that it's completely immoral - but you can't ignore the blatant acceptance of it by Yahweh in the Bible.

Our brains deceive us on a regular basis, so we have to find ways to fight back.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheSixthGlass's post
30-04-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:23 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Is it always 100% wrong to treat another human being as your property? YES!

This is a no-brainer, KC.

You are absolutely correct, but that's not what I'm saying.

Slavery was a part of the society and culture. People are imperfect; therefore, this popular "sin" couldn't be abolished during that time. God gave instructions on how to treat your slaves.
So he saw fit to instruct people on how to sin politely but called homosexuality and shellfish an abomination. God's intelligence and compassion should be above that of the common man. Shouldn't slavery have been called an abomination before God?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like germanyt's post
30-04-2012, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2012 09:42 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:31 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You are absolutely correct, but that's not what I'm saying.

Slavery was a part of the society and culture. People are imperfect; therefore, this popular "sin" couldn't be abolished during that time. God gave instructions on how to treat your slaves.
So he saw fit to instruct people on how to sin politely but called homosexuality and shellfish an abomination. God's intelligence and compassion should be above that of the common man. Shouldn't slavery have been called an abomination before God?
Considering that God created sin to serve a purpose, I guess that's not really a question I can answer. I don't know why, in some instances, sin is either harshly punished or completely looked over.

I think a lot of it has to do with how God's plan was going to come into fruition and which sins would be used to usher God's plan.

We see that a lot in the Bible... in order for God's plan to work, there had to be some type of sin.

(30-04-2012 09:31 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  Slavery is either moral or immoral - this isn't a question of whether it was accepted in a society or not. Was it moral because it was accepted? No. And it's that simple. So - did God, who supposedly wrote this book, ever once say "hey - don't own people"? No. It's funny how the morality of an all-knowing, never-changing, perfect being tends to adapt to the social and political outlooks of the leaders of the tribes to which he is supposedly communicating.
That is incorrect.

Murder and child sacrifice is practice by primitive tribes in Africa. Are they immoral? No. According to their society, it is acceptable.

Extreme suppression of women is widely practiced in Muslim societies. Is this immoral? To us, yes. To them, no.

Morality is completely subjective. There is NOTHING that is objectively immoral.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
30-04-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:31 AM)germanyt Wrote:  So he saw fit to instruct people on how to sin politely but called homosexuality and shellfish an abomination. God's intelligence and compassion should be above that of the common man. Shouldn't slavery have been called an abomination before God?
Considering that God created sin to serve a purpose, I guess that's not really a question I can answer. I don't know why, in some instances, sin is either harshly punished or completely looked over.

I think a lot of it has to do with how God's plan was going to come into fruition and which sins would be used to usher God's plan.

We see that a lot in the Bible... in order for God's plan to work, there had to be some type of sin.

(30-04-2012 09:31 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  Slavery is either moral or immoral - this isn't a question of whether it was accepted in a society or not. Was it moral because it was accepted? No. And it's that simple. So - did God, who supposedly wrote this book, ever once say "hey - don't own people"? No. It's funny how the morality of an all-knowing, never-changing, perfect being tends to adapt to the social and political outlooks of the leaders of the tribes to which he is supposedly communicating.
That is incorrect.

Murder and child sacrifice is practice by primitive tribes in Africa. Are they immoral? No. According to their society, it is acceptable.

Extreme suppression of women is widely practiced in Muslim societies. Is this immoral? To us, yes. To them, no.

Morality is completely subjective. There is NOTHING that is objectively immoral.
Really? So then any act is justifiable and moral, based on the society where you live. If you say so. No

Our brains deceive us on a regular basis, so we have to find ways to fight back.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-04-2012, 09:58 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:55 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Considering that God created sin to serve a purpose, I guess that's not really a question I can answer. I don't know why, in some instances, sin is either harshly punished or completely looked over.

I think a lot of it has to do with how God's plan was going to come into fruition and which sins would be used to usher God's plan.

We see that a lot in the Bible... in order for God's plan to work, there had to be some type of sin.

That is incorrect.

Murder and child sacrifice is practice by primitive tribes in Africa. Are they immoral? No. According to their society, it is acceptable.

Extreme suppression of women is widely practiced in Muslim societies. Is this immoral? To us, yes. To them, no.

Morality is completely subjective. There is NOTHING that is objectively immoral.
Really? So then any act is justifiable and moral, based on the society where you live. If you say so. No
Well technically that is what objective morals are. But God should know better even if we don't.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-04-2012, 10:10 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:55 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Considering that God created sin to serve a purpose, I guess that's not really a question I can answer. I don't know why, in some instances, sin is either harshly punished or completely looked over.

I think a lot of it has to do with how God's plan was going to come into fruition and which sins would be used to usher God's plan.

We see that a lot in the Bible... in order for God's plan to work, there had to be some type of sin.

That is incorrect.

Murder and child sacrifice is practice by primitive tribes in Africa. Are they immoral? No. According to their society, it is acceptable.

Extreme suppression of women is widely practiced in Muslim societies. Is this immoral? To us, yes. To them, no.

Morality is completely subjective. There is NOTHING that is objectively immoral.
Really? So then any act is justifiable and moral, based on the society where you live. If you say so. No
Why is that so shocking?

Objective morality says that something is wrong or right 100% of the time, which, we know, isn't true.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-04-2012, 10:10 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
King while I agree with moral relativity I have a serious question for you. The idea of god discussing morals suggests moral absolutism. How can you suggest that god who gave people an exact way to live did not have an exact standard for the morality of their culture? Yes the old testament is about the Jewish, but those following it's laws should notshare the views of "some tribes in Africa" (will not use the word primitive). If you're a follower of god, then it goes to show you should live in his society. Unless of course you feel the new testament frees you of it since it gives reasons for gentiles to be given grace by the god of the Jews. I can agree that the rest of the world was not expected to live up to YHWH's standards, but if you're a follower then you should be following his cultural views correct?

The book often chastises Israel for doing things wrong so many times, but never does it chastise slavery or for that matter polygamy. The new culture of christians should be seen as blasphemous for the simple fact that they've rewritten the social codes of god's kingdom.

The whole point of God's morals though is an argument for moral absolutism. If you want to speak relativism then what he says holds absolutely no weight.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Lilith Pride's post
30-04-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 09:58 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:55 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  Really? So then any act is justifiable and moral, based on the society where you live. If you say so. No
Well technically that is what objective morals are. But God should know better even if we don't.
Not if He wanted that sin to take place.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: