MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
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30-04-2012, 10:29 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
Hey, KC.

I like the bit about context. Reminds me of a similar argument about the place of Shylock in Merchant, by I digest.

Hey, erbody.

No theologian here, but isn't it that YES, God's morality is absolute but that YES, not everyone follows it because YES, we have free will to choose whatever path we want and that YES, only those that do follow Gods morality are allowed into heaven and erbody else can suck it?

It's just that to me, some of the above arguments seem to suggest that not only is God's morality absolute but that he seems to be failing to enforce it universally, which I don't think is his job.

And not to plunge this thread into the endless morass that is cultural relativity vs objective morality, but cultural relativity rules! I mean, the fact that moral codes are different from culture to culture is demonstrable and plain as day, so I really don't get the controversy.

As for Savage, he had a really good point about being of a people that are the recipient of not just hate in a book, but of gay bashing and even murder and that it was slightly perverse, for that reason, for people to walk out just because he was saying, "Your bullshit laws are bullshit and don't expect me to lay down and take it."

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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30-04-2012, 10:29 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 10:10 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:55 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  Really? So then any act is justifiable and moral, based on the society where you live. If you say so. No
Why is that so shocking?

Objective morality says that something is wrong or right 100% of the time, which, we know, isn't true.
Actually, I would think that objective morality says that things are right or wrong because of observable and demonstrable reasons - without necessary absolutes. Certain things, such as slavery, are right or wrong 100% of the time (wrong being the case here). Other things which may be right or wrong some of the time, should still be able to be demonstrated as to under what circumstances they are right or wrong - the whims of society not being a valid reason behind morality.

We may never find the correct objective morality of certain ideals and situations, but that does not mean that the objective morality does not exist. In some situations, we may be faced with nothing but immoral options - but just because there is no other option does not immediately make one of them moral. Slavery may have helped the United States grow its economy and become a world power - but that doesn't mean slavery was a moral action, even if it was acceptable by the majority population.

Our brains deceive us on a regular basis, so we have to find ways to fight back.
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30-04-2012, 03:48 PM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/video-a...hool-stude


The comments are good for a laugh.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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01-05-2012, 06:11 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2012 06:13 AM by reverendjeremiah.)
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"



Fox News selectively edits Dan Savage's presentation out of context to make it look like an attack. Claims Dan was "bullying christians" and that christians who left were standing up and being brave against his bullying....another example of persecuted christians.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Dan_Savage
Conservapedi Dan Savage article
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--->The It Gets Better Project is currently a national embarrassment. In 2012, homosexual activist Dan Savage was supposed to deliver an anti-bullying message to high school students. However, as many as 100 students walked out on his speech as he shouted vulgarities about the Bible and mocked Christians. [7] It was reported that Savage engaged in verbal bullying as well. [7] Savage noted in his speech that anti-homosexual rhetoric often cites the Bible for its authority while ignoring the Bible's pro-slavery stance, and its ban on eating shellfish, two issues which are passed over in today's society.[8]

"Praise Sweet Baby Jesus!" - RevJ. Cool

My Sites: www.jesuschristarcade.com - www.facebook.com/jesuschristarcade - Twitter@jesusarcade
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01-05-2012, 06:39 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 08:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  On the issue of slavery and the Bible:

The Bible doesn't promote slavery; however, it doesn't condemn it either. It instructs the slave owners how to treat their slaves.

Slavery was a part of the society back then. Our social evolution had not reached a point where it was condemned and seen as wrong.

It's akin to abortion being a part of our society today. Likewise, I do not oppose abortion, but that does not mean I support it. Socially, I understand why it's legal and acceptable, and that there are others that don't believe the same as me. This was the same premise for slavery in Biblical times.

It's frustrating when people take this out of context.
"Our social evolution had not reached a point where it was condemned and seen as wrong."

Exactly, you say it yourself that the bible reflects mans opinion at the time it was written. Is that not an indication that it was in fact written by man? Open your eyes the proof is in your own writing. (typing)

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01-05-2012, 07:54 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 09:58 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Well technically that is what objective morals are. But God should know better even if we don't.
Not if He wanted that sin to take place.
I understand your position. I just don't agree that an all-knowing, all-powerful, and supposedly all moral being would operate that way. Hard to compare to a person but if I had those qualities I can be sure that I would never place man on a path to slavery. It's just wrong.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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01-05-2012, 10:02 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
I like the The Young Turks guy. Solid deconstruction. Good stuff.

Man, as a Canadian, I just feel so fucking sorry for Americans. American news is all you guys get. We get it here in Canada because the US culture dumps over the border (damn you American cultural imperialism <shakes fist>) but we also get Canadian news, so we're privileged to a less vulgar media. Don't get me wrong, CBC has its issues and CTV and Global would love nothing more than to program 100% American content, but they don't even come close to that fucking bat shit crazy carnival that is the American 24-hour news cycle. American news is, as Stewie puts it, just an absolute casserole of nonsense.

And the worst of the bunch, of course, is Fox news.

Jesus H Christ on a broken bicycle in Heaven, Fox news is absurd.

The thing I think is most dangerous about them is that they're not even zealots. If they were insane right wing Evangelical Christians spouting their douchebag rhetoric, I'd be OK with that cuz at least they'd have conviction. But they aren't. They're capitalists. Pure capitalists. They have identified a target audience and deliver to them the most demagogic, divisive, sensational, insighting, infuriating, lowest common denominator, doctored bullshit the world has ever seen. No wonder the right is out of control in the US. Fox is feeding them rocket fuel! Fucking Goebbels would be like, "God damn, you can do that with propaganda? I HAD NO IDEA!" Orwell is like, "I told you, bitches! Suck it!"

You have the power to stop this, Americans! And for those of you that have allowed this abomination to be unleashed upon the world, I offer you this:





Cool

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Matt
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01-05-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(30-04-2012 10:29 AM)TheSixthGlass Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 10:10 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why is that so shocking?

Objective morality says that something is wrong or right 100% of the time, which, we know, isn't true.
Actually, I would think that objective morality says that things are right or wrong because of observable and demonstrable reasons - without necessary absolutes. Certain things, such as slavery, are right or wrong 100% of the time (wrong being the case here). Other things which may be right or wrong some of the time, should still be able to be demonstrated as to under what circumstances they are right or wrong - the whims of society not being a valid reason behind morality.

We may never find the correct objective morality of certain ideals and situations, but that does not mean that the objective morality does not exist. In some situations, we may be faced with nothing but immoral options - but just because there is no other option does not immediately make one of them moral. Slavery may have helped the United States grow its economy and become a world power - but that doesn't mean slavery was a moral action, even if it was acceptable by the majority population.
We can call a previous act immoral in hindsight. If you're completely honest with yourself, you should admit that your view on slavery might have been different had you been born into the era of American slavery in a well-to-do white family. Only in hindsight can you find "demonstrable" evidence that it was wrong. Guess why you can though? Because the modern society you live in has reached a point where we reflect on such actions of our past relatives. You never know, what you find to be 100% moral now could change in the future and your kids kids might be reflecting on that.

I'm not saying there is not an object morality. I am simply saying that this is something that is damn near impossible to determine because you can only have the knowledge that present time provides to you.

When I was a drug addict, I had a very different opinion on certain types of drug use than I do now. This is because I was in my bubble at the time. I thought it caused no harm to anyone else if I chose to use. I now realize the damage that I caused emotionally to my family. I realize the hindrance it put on my academics and career path. None of this could have been known during those drug addiction years. Back then, it was perfectly moral to me to be using. Side note: I don't apply this to all drugs though as I find Mary Jane perfectly acceptable.

I've always said that morality is only objective for the time-being.

Just a little thought exercise on the slavery being 100% immoral issue...

Me personally, if someone killed one of my family members and I had the choice to enslave him, I would happily do so. If the alternative is a death sentence, I would choose slavery.

I acknowledge that my action would quite possibly be 100% immoral. The question I pose is, is the killer's punishment for killing my family in this situation justified?

Because you have to consider my revenge angle here... if the killer took one of my family members from me, I would suffer all my life with that thought. It would be very different from losing that family member from natural causes or accidents. So the point of me enslaving him would be to make him live with something negative for the rest of his life rather than get humanely put to death via a peaceful sleep.

Morality is a tough one to scratch isn't it? Not so black and white.

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02-05-2012, 09:48 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(01-05-2012 07:54 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-04-2012 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Not if He wanted that sin to take place.
I understand your position. I just don't agree that an all-knowing, all-powerful, and supposedly all moral being would operate that way. Hard to compare to a person but if I had those qualities I can be sure that I would never place man on a path to slavery. It's just wrong.
That's your mistake right there. God is not moral in accordance to any type of human morality. He is only moral to His own standards.

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02-05-2012, 09:52 AM
RE: MSM says "Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room"
(02-05-2012 09:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-05-2012 07:54 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I understand your position. I just don't agree that an all-knowing, all-powerful, and supposedly all moral being would operate that way. Hard to compare to a person but if I had those qualities I can be sure that I would never place man on a path to slavery. It's just wrong.
That's your mistake right there. God is not moral in accordance to any type of human morality. He is only moral to His own standards.
Well, IMO God's standards are patheticly low.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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