Made us in his image?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-08-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 11:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  In fact, let's break down your stupidity and expose how truly asinine and petty/worthless you are to a conversation.

(26-08-2014 09:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's cute how you say "correctly interpreted text". Dodgy

Your implications are that either:

1) I am incorrect in my interpretations
or
2) There are no "correct" interpretations

For both 1 and 2 you are wrong.

1) I'm right (look it up) and 2) I'm right (look it up). That is what the oldest Hebrew documents that we have are in terms of correct interpretation of the Hebrew text.

Now, we delve further into you asserting that we have no "original" text.

1) That was never a claim nor an issue; I only said "correctly interpreted" which means that which has been interpreted that we have.
2) Original text is a non-factor here because that's not what we're talking about; likewise, the oldest available texts we have are used for theology and as the basis for the texts... making the need for an original text moot since our interpretations are based on the oldest texts. The only way they would change is if we found older texts ala Dead Sea Scrolls.

So, old geezer, please explain your actual point... what are you trying to get at? Because I see nothing productive coming from your post besides asininity. Where is your point?

Do you actually mean 'translation'?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2014, 11:59 AM
RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 11:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-08-2014 11:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  In fact, let's break down your stupidity and expose how truly asinine and petty/worthless you are to a conversation.


Your implications are that either:

1) I am incorrect in my interpretations
or
2) There are no "correct" interpretations

For both 1 and 2 you are wrong.

1) I'm right (look it up) and 2) I'm right (look it up). That is what the oldest Hebrew documents that we have are in terms of correct interpretation of the Hebrew text.

Now, we delve further into you asserting that we have no "original" text.

1) That was never a claim nor an issue; I only said "correctly interpreted" which means that which has been interpreted that we have.
2) Original text is a non-factor here because that's not what we're talking about; likewise, the oldest available texts we have are used for theology and as the basis for the texts... making the need for an original text moot since our interpretations are based on the oldest texts. The only way they would change is if we found older texts ala Dead Sea Scrolls.

So, old geezer, please explain your actual point... what are you trying to get at? Because I see nothing productive coming from your post besides asininity. Where is your point?

Do you actually mean 'translation'?

No, I actually mean "interpretation".

Each Hebrew word can have multiple interpretations from a single translation. Based on the context, history, and grammar there is a mostly accepted interpretation when it comes to the ancient Hebrew language.

For the record, I knew you were going to pull the "translation vs interpretation" card because you had no other course of action because everything you've said is pure semantic BS... meant to derail and detract from any actual interesting conversation.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 11:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-08-2014 11:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you actually mean 'translation'?

No, I actually mean "interpretation".

Each Hebrew word can have multiple interpretations from a single translation. Based on the context, history, and grammar there is a mostly accepted interpretation when it comes to the ancient Hebrew language.

For the record, I knew you were going to pull the "translation vs interpretation" card because you had no other course of action because everything you've said is pure semantic BS... meant to derail and detract from any actual interesting conversation.

So this brings us back around to the point of why this message would need correct translation if it was from a supposedly perfect source.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 11:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-08-2014 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  You don't or can't understand that your assertion of 'correct interpretation' is egotistical, self-serving bullshit. It is your personal belief, not fact.

No, it's based on the ancient Hebrew language... or is that "bullshit" in the world you live in too?

Do we really know the ancient Hebrew language well enough to be that certain of the exact meanings of words?

To make this more concrete, I was just on a Catholic site where they were arguing about Genesis 1:1. What is it that moves over the waters: the spirit of God, the breath of God, or a mighty wind? The claim is that the same Hebrew word can mean any of those -- so what was the actual intent of the author? How can we possibly know for sure?

I would pose the same question here -- can we really be certain what was meant by "in God's image"? Perhaps Chas was unnecessarily snarky, but I agree with his basic point: assuming there is a single "correct interpretation", how can anyone today be absolutely certain of what it is?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 11:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(26-08-2014 11:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you actually mean 'translation'?

No, I actually mean "interpretation".

Each Hebrew word can have multiple interpretations from a single translation. Based on the context, history, and grammar there is a mostly accepted interpretation when it comes to the ancient Hebrew language.

For the record, I knew you were going to pull the "translation vs interpretation" card because you had no other course of action because everything you've said is pure semantic BS... meant to derail and detract from any actual interesting conversation.

No, I asked if you meant translation because your response seemed to imply that.

You can not know the 'correct interpretation' of an ancient text, all interpretations are opinions. So to state that you have the 'correct interpretation' is an unfounded assertion.

And the text is fiction, so there's that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Made us in his image?
KC,
How can an interpretation not be subjective? Without the original authors to explain the precise meanings, interpretations are open to error. Therefore, how can there be a correct interpretation as opposed to one that a majority agree upon as likely?

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Impulse's post
26-08-2014, 12:15 PM
Information RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 12:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  KC,
How can an interpretation not be subjective? Without the original authors to explain the precise meanings, interpretations are open to error. Therefore, how can there be a correct interpretation as opposed to one that a majority agree upon as likely?

I think we've gotten two steps ahead here:

1. There is no proof god exists
2. There is no proof YHWH is THE god that exits
3. Interpretation of your favorite holy book is the correct one......Angel

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: Made us in his image?
If so, then God is a big fat GirlyMan with a tiny penis. Kinda figured as much.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-08-2014, 04:33 AM
RE: Made us in his image?
(26-08-2014 07:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The correctly interpreted text is that God created humanity in His own likeness - that is, creating humanity as humanity i.e. humans with similar traits as its creator.
What do you mean by humanity?
What traits are similar to the god?
Why is it important to express that humans share traits with a creator?
Why is it unimportant to define what those traits are?

My guess is that the authors of the story wanted to create a link between the readers and the god character. Otherwise of course it would seem strange that this god in interested in human affairs. Watching over us, giving us commandments, judging us...

Philosophically or Mythically to ponder why us humans appear to be special, distinct from the other animals.

Perhaps to ponder that humans are god like in comparison to the other animals. God like because we appear to have intentionality, that we can manipulate our environment that we seem to be more awake, and less driven by pure instinct.

Perhaps this style of writing was the authors expressing that they consider themselves and humankind to be gods.

(26-08-2014 07:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No where does it saw we are an absolute reflection... whether physically or emotionally. All it says is we are created with a likeness to God.

Holy crap... my son can create a "likeness" of a T-rex out of Playdough, but that doesn't make it a Tyrant Lizard King.
But what your son can do is create something that physically looks like a T-rex.
That is what us atheists are confused about, we keep thinking that "likeness to god" means that the claim is that the god physically looks like us. But knowing evolution, we have features and organs because we need them to survive.
How else could your kid make something in the likeness of a T-rex without trying to recreate it's physical image?

(26-08-2014 10:02 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm just tired of the BS.

Not putting any effort into it anymore.

... By then, though, the derp squad has shown up and successfully derped along and have either started to derail or completely derailed any genuine point and/or discussion I had attempted to make.

I used to have patience for it, but I just don't anymore.

There are countless bitchings about all we ever get is trolls and no one ever comes along to have actual discussion anymore... maybe you should start policing yourselves and quit doing this BS when actual discussion is being birthed.

I have more patience than any online theist I know, and I've pretty much had it in regards to actually trying to hold a religious conversation on TTA.

Pretty much deserve to be trolled, IMO.
I like this post. Kings, I really would like to see you put less effort into being jovial and courteous and more effort into putting cards on the table, exploring ideas/beliefs etc, and fighting (when important). I don't necessarily like that you keep yourself in check. I think if you are able to stick around then not being an administrator may allow you to fully participate.

I do understand though that on this forum there are a group of individuals that just look forward to dishing out shit to "crazy" believers.


(26-08-2014 11:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  In fact, let's break down your stupidity and expose how truly asinine and petty/worthless you are to a conversation.

(26-08-2014 09:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's cute how you say "correctly interpreted text". Dodgy

Your implications are that either:

1) I am incorrect in my interpretations
or
2) There are no "correct" interpretations
I find it interesting that you have got annoyed at the suggestion/implication that there is no such thing as a correct interpretation.
Personally, I thought the worst part of the post was the "cute" bit, as that comes across as demeaning, trivialising you and your position.

With regards to the "no such thing as a correct interpretation" bit, I too would feel it difficult to consider a story or phrase that requires interpretation to be intending to convey a specific meaning.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-08-2014, 06:00 AM
RE: Made us in his image?
(10-08-2014 05:17 PM)Chi_city93 Wrote:  In the bible, it says "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them". That is an exact quote, but why would anyone believe that? I know its not meaning that we are god, but we have the likeness of god. Basically saying that we have the same appearance. Now, why would the so called "god almighty" make us so inferior to him but in his image?
As a species we are weak, the only thing we got going for us is our mind and a posable thumbs. if god is so great, and we are supposed to be in his likeness. I think we should of had diamond skin, wings, longer lifespans etc. instead we are conscious decaying flesh bags.


probably for the same reason that god made all asian people in his image, therefore god is asian. Or, god made all Israeli people, therefor he looks just like them. Or how he made all nords, therefor he has a long beard and is nordic. Or how white people are made in his image, therefor he is brown hair and blue eyes or how he is black and therefor god looks just like the people who look like him.

God created people in his image depending on their geographical location. It is kinda proof that god doesn't exist and that we created god and not the other way around.
Why anyone is too stupid to see this I have no idea.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: