Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
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23-11-2013, 11:21 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
Change it from losers to the whole faction winning.

I did the same, simply because it pleases the players.

Overall, we want the game to appeal to the players.

(03-09-2014 09:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Ferdy is a female with testosterone levels that wouldn't surprise me if her clit was bigger than GirlyMan's little limp dick. And Hughsie thinks he's male but his fatass hasn't seen his pecker in years.
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23-11-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 11:10 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Your first point: I'm toying with the idea of banning public role claims to prevent that. Any feedback would be appreciated.
The rest of the stuff you've been talking about is more aesthetic, but this is a bad decision. I would strongly recommend against banning public roleclaiming. If you really want to deter people from roleclaiming, create more punishing roles. Give the mafia a redirector, framer, roleblocker, x-shot strongman killer, vanilla-iser, jailer, silencer or something to just make roleclaiming a bad strategy rather than outright banning it.

Or make more roles on town's side harder to claim. Or make them vanilla.

I just see a lot of drama coming from banning public roleclaiming and whenever the moderator has to step in to prevent strategic play, there's a problem with the game's inherent design rather than with the strategy itself.
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23-11-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 11:33 AM)Cheetory6 Wrote:  The rest of the stuff you've been talking about is more aesthetic, but this is a bad decision. I would strongly recommend against banning public roleclaiming. If you really want to deter people from roleclaiming, create more punishing roles. Give the mafia a redirector, framer, roleblocker, x-shot strongman killer, vanilla-iser, jailer, silencer or something to just make roleclaiming a bad strategy rather than outright banning it.

Or make more roles on town's side harder to claim. Or make them vanilla.

I just see a lot of drama coming from banning public roleclaiming and whenever the moderator has to step in to prevent strategic play, there's a problem with the game's inherent design rather than with the strategy itself.

THIS.

I really like these ideas for Mafia roles.

I also want to stray away from making the game stricter than it was meant to be.

Let's go back to letting the factions win as a whole, also. People may not agree with the "last man standing" set up, and really we want to make the game and its rules appealing to people.

(03-09-2014 09:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Ferdy is a female with testosterone levels that wouldn't surprise me if her clit was bigger than GirlyMan's little limp dick. And Hughsie thinks he's male but his fatass hasn't seen his pecker in years.
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23-11-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 11:17 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 10:52 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Well, I gotta admit I think it's pretty sad that you're more bothered by getting six letters after your name than actually enjoying the game but if it bothers you that much I'll change it. I think there should be an element of sacrifice to someone sacrificing their life (I think it adds more realism to the game, up the stakes, and creates an interesting personal gain vs team game aspect) but I'm really not that bothered by such a minor thing.

I think I'm just not gonna have stated winners if it's this contentious. Everyone can decide at end of the game who they personally consider to be winners and losers. I'll change the OP when I get home from work.

I don't think you understand. It affects the entire dynamic of the game. If I played knowing that's how the game was tallied I would be a terrible teammate. It wouldn't be fair to my team. Knowing this, no one would ever share information with me. I wouldn't have fun playing it.

It isn't about getting declared a 'winner'. As a matter of fact, the only two times I've officially 'won' is the two games I died on the first night. If it were that big of a deal to me I probably wouldn't still be playing.

I was banking on it affecting the dynamic. It makes things far more interesting if there's a downside to doing something suicidal, it seems stupid to me to have a game where there is no downside to making a sacrifice.

But anyway, like I said, I'm not designating winners anymore if people are gonna take it so seriously. Everyone can consider themselves whatever the hell they want in the end, that way everyone gets to have the game end the way they think it should.

Surely people can be happy with that?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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23-11-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 11:39 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 11:33 AM)Cheetory6 Wrote:  The rest of the stuff you've been talking about is more aesthetic, but this is a bad decision. I would strongly recommend against banning public roleclaiming. If you really want to deter people from roleclaiming, create more punishing roles. Give the mafia a redirector, framer, roleblocker, x-shot strongman killer, vanilla-iser, jailer, silencer or something to just make roleclaiming a bad strategy rather than outright banning it.

Or make more roles on town's side harder to claim. Or make them vanilla.

I just see a lot of drama coming from banning public roleclaiming and whenever the moderator has to step in to prevent strategic play, there's a problem with the game's inherent design rather than with the strategy itself.

THIS.

I really like these ideas for Mafia roles.

I also want to stray away from making the game stricter than it was meant to be.

Let's go back to letting the factions win as a whole, also. People may not agree with the "last man standing" set up, and really we want to make the game and its rules appealing to people.

There is another way to balance the game and that is simply not announce all of the characters/roles in the game. Gives the mafia a place to hide and makes public declaring on the town side a riskier proposition. If the only announced roles are the Cop and the Doctor I doubt very much you would have a public role-claim day 1. If however you do that then you need to scale back the mafia's powers a bit. After playing as many games as I have I much prefer this solution it makes for a more intriguing Game.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

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23-11-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
If you gave every townie some kind of role, even a weak one, townies would be more reluctant to role claim as well. Watcher, normal Bodyguard, Gossiper, etc. You could also add townie roles like Paranoid Cop, Bad Cop, etc, without telling the townie in question what the modifier is.

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23-11-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 11:54 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 11:39 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  THIS.

I really like these ideas for Mafia roles.

I also want to stray away from making the game stricter than it was meant to be.

Let's go back to letting the factions win as a whole, also. People may not agree with the "last man standing" set up, and really we want to make the game and its rules appealing to people.

There is another way to balance the game and that is simply not announce all of the characters/roles in the game. Gives the mafia a place to hide and makes public declaring on the town side a riskier proposition. If the only announced roles are the Cop and the Doctor I doubt very much you would have a public role-claim day 1. If however you do that then you need to scale back the mafia's powers a bit. After playing as many games as I have I much prefer this solution it makes for a more intriguing Game.

I wrote this to be newbie friendly (when I wrote it Ferdy was planning to host DC first with hidden roles) as many people wanted one. By the time I wanted to change it several people already knew the details so it was too late to change it.

I won't be hosting another open game (if I host again at all).

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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23-11-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 11:58 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 11:54 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  There is another way to balance the game and that is simply not announce all of the characters/roles in the game. Gives the mafia a place to hide and makes public declaring on the town side a riskier proposition. If the only announced roles are the Cop and the Doctor I doubt very much you would have a public role-claim day 1. If however you do that then you need to scale back the mafia's powers a bit. After playing as many games as I have I much prefer this solution it makes for a more intriguing Game.

I wrote this to be newbie friendly (when I wrote it Ferdy was planning to host DC first with hidden roles) as many people wanted one. By the time I wanted to change it several people already knew the details so it was too late to change it.

I won't be hosting another open game (if I host again at all).

I know, this was not a criticism of you or your game was just adding to the theorycrafting discussion. The more we work these kinks out the easier making new games will be. Oh and IMO a newbie friendly game doesn't have to be an open role it should however be a more basic version with no exotic roles. Town side just having 1 cop 1 doc and 1 back-up for each and mafia just having a succession order with no additional powers. If all that were announced in that game were the cop and doc then they definitely would not want to role claim and it would still be as n00b friendly as you can make this game.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

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23-11-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
Like at the end of the day, host this however you want to host it Sir Hughsie. I'm still down to play. If you want to try out this 'if you die you lose' thing, I'd be willing to give it a shot.
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23-11-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: Mafia XIX: Harry Potter
(23-11-2013 10:52 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 02:42 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Meh, I didn't see that last part. Since I've played about 10 of these and never once survived, I can count my odds as almost zero as well. I have a reputation. Plus, if I actually played with these rules in mind I would just fuck over all of my "team mates" as well.

Sorry Hughsie, I'm gonna back out as well. No offense.

Well, I gotta admit I think it's pretty sad that you're more bothered by getting six letters after your name than actually enjoying the game but if it bothers you that much I'll change it. I think there should be an element of sacrifice to someone sacrificing their life (I think it adds more realism to the game, up the stakes, and creates an interesting personal gain vs team game aspect) but I'm really not that bothered by such a minor thing.

I think I'm just not gonna have stated winners if it's this contentious. Everyone can decide at end of the game who they personally consider to be winners and losers. I'll change the OP when I get home from work.

It's a fucking game, you don't need to add "realism". In real life the cops would call in the swat team and be done with it..
And there is a level of sacrifice because once you're dead you're out of the game.

It's stupid because like DL and myself have said it gives absolutely no incentive to work as a team and work for the benefit of your year team...

And not having any winners is even MORE retarded... It's not fucking hard, the whole faction wins regardless of dead or alive. That's how the game is played, that's how it should be played and that's how it needs to be played.

Quote:Your first point: I'm toying with the idea of banning public role claims to prevent that. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Stupid.

[quote]Your second point: No it makes sense. Otherwise there is no downside to giving your life up. This way you have to balance the benefit if the team against personal benefit which makes things far more intriguing. It's irrelevant anyway now as per my reply to DL. [quote]

It makes zero sense. The downside is you're out of the game. The only balancing people are going to do is "will this get me killed, yes or no?".



As for the whole n00b friendly thing, this is game what? 19? People can go back and look at past games. You don't need like 80% of the games to be "n00b friendly". I don't even get how you can make it n00b friendly... It's not a n00b friendly sort of game, you either know the rules or you don't. And so the only thing to learn after the rules and what would distinguish an experienced player from a n00b would be strategy and knowing when people are lying etc.. It doesn't matter how you change the rules, you're not gonna teach the other stuff... So there's no point trying to make the rules "n00b friendly".

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