Magic
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-01-2012, 03:46 PM
Magic
Realized I was going Off Topic in another thread so made this one. Thanks to Rahn127 for the post which got me thinking.

(19-01-2012 02:00 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If as a theist, you came across a group of say 200 million people that truly believed that the magician was performing TRUE MAGIC, creating the rabbit, making the lion disappear, which group do you think has a better understanding of observed reality ? The group who knows that the magician is performing a trick or the group that believes it's TRUE MAGIC ?

The problem with true magic as I see it... is that our tech is already pretty close.

e.g. telepathy over vast distances - I can communicate with people the other side of the world instantly!!!

But... a mobile phone achieves the same without the woo woo stuff and is guaranteed more reliable. So this telepathy gig is already a *boring* magic to have.

How about... ability to fly? Well shit. We've got like a thousand ways that don't rely on entrails harvested at midnight and are *less likely* to end in a pile of chicken feathers at the bottom of a cliff. Jetpacks, those base jumping outfits, hang-gliders, airplanes, gliders...

Lights, like mysterious lights? You know, mystic illumination... Again, boring magic - why use magic when a torch works perfectly well?

Teleportation. That seems great right? Teleport to the other side of the world! But... get on a flight, wait 12 hours and voila! other side of the world!

See... I mean like in movies or fantasy books it's always magic that gets you through the hard times but... I always get bored 'cos all the stuff they do with magic is stuff we can already do.

I mean, I'm not even gonna talk about the number of ways we have to set someone on fire *without* mystic mumbo jumbo involved.

Can you guys think of more interesting things for magic to do? It should violate physical law as we know it to qualify as magic - otherwise it's just cleverness. Ideally chanting and waving arms should be involved, or David Eddings's concept of the will and the word...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-01-2012, 03:49 PM
RE: Magic
(19-01-2012 03:46 PM)morondog Wrote:  Realized I was going Off Topic in another thread so made this one. Thanks to Rahn127 for the post which got me thinking.

(19-01-2012 02:00 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If as a theist, you came across a group of say 200 million people that truly believed that the magician was performing TRUE MAGIC, creating the rabbit, making the lion disappear, which group do you think has a better understanding of observed reality ? The group who knows that the magician is performing a trick or the group that believes it's TRUE MAGIC ?

The problem with true magic as I see it... is that our tech is already pretty close.

e.g. telepathy over vast distances - I can communicate with people the other side of the world instantly!!!

But... a mobile phone achieves the same without the woo woo stuff and is guaranteed more reliable. So this telepathy gig is already a *boring* magic to have.

How about... ability to fly? Well shit. We've got like a thousand ways that don't rely on entrails harvested at midnight and are *less likely* to end in a pile of chicken feathers at the bottom of a cliff. Jetpacks, those base jumping outfits, hang-gliders, airplanes, gliders...

Lights, like mysterious lights? You know, mystic illumination... Again, boring magic - why use magic when a torch works perfectly well?

Teleportation. That seems great right? Teleport to the other side of the world! But... get on a flight, wait 12 hours and voila! other side of the world!

See... I mean like in movies or fantasy books it's always magic that gets you through the hard times but... I always get bored 'cos all the stuff they do with magic is stuff we can already do.

I mean, I'm not even gonna talk about the number of ways we have to set someone on fire *without* mystic mumbo jumbo involved.

Can you guys think of more interesting things for magic to do? It should violate physical law as we know it to qualify as magic - otherwise it's just cleverness. Ideally chanting and waving arms should be involved, or David Eddings's concept of the will and the word...

Levitation
Invisibility
Passing through walls

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-01-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: Magic
(19-01-2012 03:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Levitation
Stepladder

Quote:Invisibility
... yeah that'd be cool Smile Or you know, hide... But I think invisibility would be cool magic to have Smile

Quote:Passing through walls
Door, battering ram, sledgehammer.

See what I mean. No real need to violate physical law. Hmmm I just thought of one: knowledge of the future Smile That's gotta be a pain in the ass for our tech at any point... although if the knowledge is as vague and useless as portrayed in most literature about seers and prophets then there's no real point...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
19-01-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: Magic
(19-01-2012 04:06 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-01-2012 03:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Levitation
Stepladder
Don't want to carry one; doesn't work over water.
Quote:
Quote:Invisibility
... yeah that'd be cool Smile Or you know, hide... But I think invisibility would be cool magic to have Smile

Quote:Passing through walls
Door, battering ram, sledgehammer.

Not stealthy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-01-2012, 04:46 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2012 05:12 PM by Leela.)
RE: Magic
didn't exactly get your examples... but it is late and i am tired.

only thing:
Just because 200 million people *believe* and think they know that the magician is creating the bunny in the hat doesn't make them right. Keyword is "believe" and there we are again at the faith thing, eh. Having faith in something doesn't make it true. Having scientific proof, that the magician can create the bunny in the hat makes, it true.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Leela's post
19-01-2012, 05:13 PM
RE: Magic
I was a little disappointed this thread wasn't about:
[Image: 200px-Magic_the_gathering-card_back.jpg]

But seriously, I think our brains cause us to believe in magic because they can fool us into thinking we've seen things we haven't seen. This is a pretty good video to share with people who believe in goofy things.




It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-01-2012, 07:20 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2012 07:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Magic
(19-01-2012 03:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Levitation

Maglev.

(19-01-2012 03:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Invisibility

Interference and misdirection.

(19-01-2012 03:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Passing through walls

Let's try to see through them first. Wink

Technology is fucking magic. In the sense that it's every bit as explainable as the illusions professional magicians use. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
20-01-2012, 12:17 AM
RE: Magic
...

Been thinking more. What I mean is...

Whenever you read a fantasy novel for example, there's lots of swinging of swords and running around, chasing dragons, fucking elves if you get the chance... but there's often magic too. And the magic is for example, used for communication.

That's when I get bored. 'Cos you've got this fantasy world right, but the magic in it is basically a replacement for mobile phones... so the whole fantasy degenerates into basically a soap opera with funky props.

Or for example the followers of Maharishi Maharesh Yogi believe that the man can meditate and levitate at the same time, and this skill can be learned. They spend hours training so that they will be able to do the same thing... why? I mean, is it that hard to sit on a chair? If magic is so great, you'd have to show me something more interesting than levitation to make me want to devote my life to learning how. Of course I'd be interested if you could do it and I could try figure out how it works, but I wouldn't want to be able to *do* magic myself just so that I could get rid of all the chairs in my house.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-01-2012, 12:20 AM
RE: Magic
Every time I think of miracles and magic I think of this video.. and how music is magic, it's just there in the air. YOU CAN'T EVEN HOLD IT!
I'm convinced that flatulence is also magic. It's just there in the air, you can't even hold it!


Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-01-2012, 12:35 AM
RE: Magic
Mind reading and Mind control! Gone with the freewill! *shivers* (hypnotism?)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes LadyJane's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: