Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
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01-10-2017, 10:12 AM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(01-10-2017 05:21 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Good news is that in the foreseeable future we will have a huge laboratory to use in learning how to live in hostile environments.

Good point. Thumbsup

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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05-05-2018, 08:54 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2018 09:37 AM by Kaneda.)
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
Well would you lookie here, it seems we already had a thread in place for this!

(30-09-2017 09:50 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Interplanetary colonization is a cool idea and imo untenable. Take the International Space Station as an example, barely out of our atmosphere and difficult to maintain, to man and to resupply and we’re talking about housing only 6 astronauts, not a colony. The cost so far is around 160 billion dollars.

We should be thinking of ways to unfuck our planet instead.

I love man’s quest for exploration outside Earth but at the rate we’re destroying the only habitable planet we have or can reach we won’t live long enough as a species to colonize another. We might put a few people on Mars but it’s not going to help us here I’m afraid.

I'm largely in agreement with Full Circle here; as wonderful and ambitious as these dreams of taking to the stars and starting new worlds on other planets are, I just really don't see how any of this is feasible, or remotely practical.

I've already gone over this somewhat in the comments feed but I'm really having trouble reconciling the goal of making life interplanetary with what are obviously some hard physical barriers to setting other planets.
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05-05-2018, 10:17 AM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(05-05-2018 08:54 AM)Kaneda Wrote:  Well would you lookie here, it seems we already had a thread in place for this!

(30-09-2017 09:50 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Interplanetary colonization is a cool idea and imo untenable. Take the International Space Station as an example, barely out of our atmosphere and difficult to maintain, to man and to resupply and we’re talking about housing only 6 astronauts, not a colony. The cost so far is around 160 billion dollars.

We should be thinking of ways to unfuck our planet instead.

I love man’s quest for exploration outside Earth but at the rate we’re destroying the only habitable planet we have or can reach we won’t live long enough as a species to colonize another. We might put a few people on Mars but it’s not going to help us here I’m afraid.

I'm largely in agreement with Full Circle here; as wonderful and ambitious as these dreams of taking to the stars and starting new worlds on other planets are, I just really don't see how any of this is feasible, or remotely practical.

I've already gone over this somewhat in the comments feed but I'm really having trouble reconciling the goal of making life interplanetary with what are obviously some hard physical barriers to setting other planets.

The earth, even one under extreme global warming, remains the most viable option for light years. The chances of "terraforming" the Sahara, Atacama deserts or Antarctica to be nice and habitable are far superior to attempting the same thing on another planet. When you leave earth, the universe is just trying to kill you with very decent odds.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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05-05-2018, 10:50 AM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
Religionists claim that life violates the laws of thermodynamics because entropy is supposed to always increase. What they don't realise is that order can increase locally as long as disorder increases universally. This has implications for life on Earth though and how we can look after the planet. Basically we can't all the while we are trapped inside the Earth's gravity well because by cleaning up the place we'll be creating more disorder, whether in the form of waste heat or pollution. True, it's an open system with energy from the sun coming in, but we use fossil fuels which is the energy stored from the sun for millions of years. Renewable energies can't compete.

Normally as the global population grows we have always expanded outwards. We have always effectively exported the entropy we produce. Empires in the past have pillaged foreign lands and brought the riches back home, with the waste left behind. We're still effectively doing this now by having China manufacturing everything and becoming one of the most polluted countries. Our waste then gets sent off to the third world. But we're now reaching the point where there is nowhere else to expand to. We have no chance to look after the planet until we start harvesting the resources of space and leaving the waste there.
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05-05-2018, 01:28 PM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(05-05-2018 10:50 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Religionists claim that life violates the laws of thermodynamics because entropy is supposed to always increase. What they don't realise is that order can increase locally as long as disorder increases universally. This has implications for life on Earth though and how we can look after the planet. Basically we can't all the while we are trapped inside the Earth's gravity well because by cleaning up the place we'll be creating more disorder, whether in the form of waste heat or pollution. True, it's an open system with energy from the sun coming in, but we use fossil fuels which is the energy stored from the sun for millions of years. Renewable energies can't compete.

Normally as the global population grows we have always expanded outwards. We have always effectively exported the entropy we produce. Empires in the past have pillaged foreign lands and brought the riches back home, with the waste left behind. We're still effectively doing this now by having China manufacturing everything and becoming one of the most polluted countries. Our waste then gets sent off to the third world. But we're now reaching the point where there is nowhere else to expand to. We have no chance to look after the planet until we start harvesting the resources of space and leaving the waste there.

Okay, I think you're going to have to walk me through this one. Are you saying that human expansion into the universe is inevitable because of the consequences of entropy?

Are you saying that our present problems were inevitable even if we 1) controlled our population, 2) avoided carbon-intensive technologies, and 3) avoided overly consumptive economies, all to avoid climate change? I thought the problem was that we overwhelmed our carbon sinks of the atmosphere, the oceans, and the land, which can in fact handle certain amounts of carbon. Theoretically, can't our wastes (disorder) be consumed by other biological creatures or ameliorated by natural processes?
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05-05-2018, 01:41 PM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(30-09-2017 06:12 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This is where he announces his BFR and how it will get us to the Moon, Mars and flights to any part of the planet in about 30 minutes.
A lofty goal but it will be a while before we even land there, much less colonize it. Then you have to deal with the stupid politics of lousy governments, people who want to stop the project, people who will fight it.

We also need a different propulsion system to efficiently get there.
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05-05-2018, 02:44 PM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(30-09-2017 10:13 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 06:18 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Mars colonies will depend on Earth for a long time, so just setting one up won't make the species extinction-proof. A hundred years or so to get a viable independent colony is a more optimistic estimate among those I've seen.

Yeah. I think optimists tend to underestimate just how hostile hostile a place Mars is.

While I support the attempt and generally like Musk, I don't think I'd classify myself as an optimist. I'm about 80% sure our species will go extinct within 3-5 generations (though admittedly I think the greatest existential threat to humanity isn't climate change, I mean that's a big ideal n all but I think the greatest threat to humanity is humans unable to interact, or fuck without being total cunts to each other, which will result in humans acting like Pandas aka refusing to fuck which will quickly make us go extinct, frankly I'm also in favor of this outcome if people can't be less shit to each other).

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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05-05-2018, 02:46 PM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(05-05-2018 01:41 PM)digitalbeachbum Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 06:12 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This is where he announces his BFR and how it will get us to the Moon, Mars and flights to any part of the planet in about 30 minutes.
A lofty goal but it will be a while before we even land there, much less colonize it. Then you have to deal with the stupid politics of lousy governments, people who want to stop the project, people who will fight it.

We also need a different propulsion system to efficiently get there.

I vote for a return of wild west style rules (and clothes) for mars colonization. Only.... no guns a stray bullet could kill everyone. Instead we arm everyone with spitballs!

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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05-05-2018, 02:49 PM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
(05-05-2018 10:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(05-05-2018 08:54 AM)Kaneda Wrote:  Well would you lookie here, it seems we already had a thread in place for this!


I'm largely in agreement with Full Circle here; as wonderful and ambitious as these dreams of taking to the stars and starting new worlds on other planets are, I just really don't see how any of this is feasible, or remotely practical.

I've already gone over this somewhat in the comments feed but I'm really having trouble reconciling the goal of making life interplanetary with what are obviously some hard physical barriers to setting other planets.

The earth, even one under extreme global warming, remains the most viable option for light years. The chances of "terraforming" the Sahara, Atacama deserts or Antarctica to be nice and habitable are far superior to attempting the same thing on another planet. When you leave earth, the universe is just trying to kill you with very decent odds.

While I agree with you, the earth has always been trying to kill us all with pretty decent odds too >.>

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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05-05-2018, 03:00 PM
RE: Making Life Multiplanetary - Elon Musk
The future of planetary exploration will depend a great deal on which political party is the most powerful at the time.

Would it be the ( R ) camp - the emphasis will be on strip mining, oil exploration and the general exploitation of planetary resources.

If it' s the ( D )s, they will want to throw money at the project - and will bus people in if necessary - to get a big enough population in an environment that nobody wants to live in - so they can raise property taxes, and tax the snot out of the new residents - to pay for new schools - even though there isn't anyone under the age of 25 on the whole planet.

If it' s the Libertarians - they will want opern borders ( despite the fact that the planet is uninhabited), and will want subsidies for growing marijuana and coca plants.


The Green Party will want everyone to stay off the planet and keep it totally natural. ( though devoid of life).


However it shakes out - there will be a bunch of people who are offended with the results.

....

I'm a double atheist. I don't believe in your god or your politician.
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