Making yourself understood
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07-01-2012, 12:59 AM
RE: Making yourself understood
I used to have problems; now i say - have some love. Heart

"Making" myself understood? Write is what I do, in part such is about communication; after a whole bunch of writing, i know all the why of I. Love and morality get the I thinking I has something to say...

Don't stress it. Love and morality are oral traditions most likely chemical in intelligence. The written word is technology in evolution; our brains ain't evolved for it. It's been a patch job the whole way. I recommend order of operations. Morality is the tool to tell i what to do - your tool, your I - thus i recommend a why of I followed by a why of problem.

The problem with love is always I.

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18-01-2012, 09:01 PM
RE: Making yourself understood
Making Yourself Understood. We listen to each other with our ears, our eyes and our life experience. In fact, it's estimated that your words are only 20 percent of total talk.
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06-02-2012, 01:22 AM
RE: Making yourself understood
I hate being asked, What's your favorite food or color? I can't say I have a favorite food. I like a variety of very different foods. When I want a specific kind of food , I try to get it. There are foods I don't like , of course, but not many. I have eaten fried crikets they are surprisely not bad. When I go to Subway, the things I put on the sandwich depends on what kind of sandwich I get. The girl that made them for me gave me shit for making them different. But who would put veggies on a meatball sub? Mayo, american cheese and parmesan, that's it. Far as favorite colors go, there are a range of colors I prefer over others but I can't have a favorite one. I don't like red cars but a Ferrari in Corsa Red is nice. So color choice depends on what we're talking about.

When someone ask if I believe in God, I reply with," Which god are you talking about?"
They look at me like I'm crazy or something.
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06-02-2012, 02:25 AM
RE: Making yourself understood
The topic of this thread is a bit more complicated then what you are explaining in your post. It is not about regular talking, it's about how do you think and how do you put in words. Maybe read a bit in this thread.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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06-02-2012, 05:56 AM
RE: Making yourself understood
Leela - I 100% agree, "verbalizing"/communicating" ideas is so difficult.

In my job (IT) I quite often have to explain to audiences of varying understanding quite complex solutions to problems. It's really tough!

Given that you don't have problem with communicating through writing, perhaps you could consider how you write and then look at how you talk.

Your writing is always gramatically strong and gets the point across really clearly, you obviously re-read and edit your writing before publishing it, so could you apply any of these techniques when communicating verbally? I mean rehearse, rethink and practice before you communicate an idea. If I've got to give a presentation or attend a meeting or whatever, I'll often plan out what I'm going to say before I'm going to say it. My cat often hears an idea first, then my wife then my boss...I increase the potential hostility of the audience with each step!

Alternatively, if you can't communicate your idea/opinion clearly though words is that becuase you haven't fully thought it out yet? Could/should you internalize it a bit more before you verbalize it? So often I find myself thinking I have an answer that I've developed in isolation and when I try and say it aloud it dries up and sounds silly becuase I haven't invested enough in it. Not neccesarily a bad idea, just my lack of consideration has weakened it.

Finally, your written skills and ability to self-analyse suggest that you're well read and have grown your craft at writing through reading the work of others. Again, could you apply yourself to studying strong speakers and utilising thier skills?

I don't have any answers, just what works for me, thank you for sharing a really insightful post.

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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06-02-2012, 06:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 06:53 AM by Zat.)
RE: Making yourself understood
Very good thread, Leela. Smile

Let me add my own bit, from a different angle.

Part of your problem may not be difficulty expressing yourself in the spoken word but rather your audience's difficulty in listening to you.

You can notice it on a forum like this: you make a post, very carefully putting your ideas in logical sequence, making sure you define your concepts when necessary, being as precise and logical as you can be, and then, when you are looking at some replies, it becomes obvious that the person skipped reading half (or more) of what you so carefully composed in your post.

I find this very frustrating because I take so much care to be precise and logical and then it turns out that it was all for nothing because half of it wasn't even read. Many people often look for trigger words while scanning a post and, when they find one, they pick it up and react to it in a knee-jerk kind of way, without considering the context in which the word was used.

So, in verbal conversations, similar things may happen and that may explain why it is difficult to communicate:

People need not only to speak clearly, logically and precisely, but they need to be able to listen in the same way. Big Grin

ETA:

This Forum is the best I have seen so far in this regard -- I am having very few problems in communicating and being understood. I could tell you some horror stories about some other forums where I often thought we were not even using the same language!
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06-02-2012, 06:51 AM
RE: Making yourself understood
I think that communicating clearly is a skill that can be learned by all, but needs to be treated like learning any other skill - some analysis of current faults, some study of new techniques, some mechanical practice, and then integration into your regular habits. Good communicators put a lot of effort into doing it, but it appears effortless when observed.

Do you have a sincere interest in helping people to understand you? If so, do the prep work to make it happen.
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06-02-2012, 07:09 AM
RE: Making yourself understood
@ Zat - totally agree about the audience being valid, I hate it when you're talking and you can see that the person isn't listening, they're just waiting for a chance to speak!

Although, is that my fault for presenting the idea/opinion badly or is it the audiences fault for tuning me out?

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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06-02-2012, 09:51 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 09:55 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Making yourself understood
Several aspects of communication differ from one mode to the next.
In physical (face to face, both persons present) communication, the emphasis is often on emotion - facial expression, body language, tone and volume - rather than content. If you want to communicate ideas in this format, the best approach is step-wise. State the purpose, as: "I have this idea" or "I'm thinking about ______" and check interlocutor's face for interest. Then proceed to the bare bones of the idea.
Do not edit yourself - in real-time communication, it simply doesn't work.
Then if interest continues, fill in major points. Then respond to comments or questions, one issue at a time.

In physical (speaker and audience present) presentation, you can read from notes. Almost everyone who speaks in public does that now, unashamedly. Point form notes, writ large, are easier to follow than detailed sentence-form notes.
In a domestic argument, you can possibly employ a similar method, first asking your spouse, parent or close friend to listen to a presentation, because you have trouble saying what you mean, then make your argument, point by point, from notes, taking questions and feedback only at the end. This method of conflict resolution requires co-operation from the other party, so it may be a good idea to establish a procedure before there is an actual conflict to resolve - sometime when you and the other person are especially well attuned.
A letter might also work here.

In a verbal (telephone) conversation with utility, business or job-related agency, it's better to have notes ready before dialing. Maybe for a doctor's appointment, or bank manager meeting, too, because we often forget to say or ask the most important thing.
In telephone conversations with friend or relative, it's best to avoid ideas altogether and stick to chat about personal matters. And keep them short, if possible.

For every problem in communication, a coping mechanism can be found of devised. Many, many people have a great variety of such problems, and those who have figured out how to overcome their particular obstacle are usually eager to share their solution. You may be able to find (or form!) a study/ support group in your neighbourhood, or you may be able to find one on line.

There is absolutely no need to be locked inside your head. It's too lonely!

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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06-02-2012, 11:47 PM
RE: Making yourself understood
It sounds like this all can be two part.

On one hand, it may be a communication style. If I think about people in my life and how they express their thoughts, there are some I 'get' more than others. Some styles are rarer than others. I have always made a special effort to understand a person no matter their style, since I have been in a minority group myself (I have both verbal and written dyslexia). There is nothing wrong with this, but it can certainly make things difficult.

On another hand, I agree with Zat that it can be the listeners problem (which sort of reflects the first part I mentioned). I don't think I am particularly bad at listening to others, but I do every once in awhile remind myself to slow down and listen to someone. Like Zat mentioned, there is a knee-jerk reaction when we listen to others. Our thoughts are not linked to each other. People tend to think that our thinking is like this: One thought sparks another idea or thought, which sparks another idea or thought and again and so on. Commonly called a tangent. In reality, we will have one thought and then a feeling and then a thought based on this feeling. It is a little more abstract. And it can be narrowed down to a specific sentence, word, concept, sound or description. It can be as broad as the whole subject or story. All of this is going on while we listen and try to follow the lead of the talker/writer.

So, if your style of communication is a very, for lack of a better word, 'fluffy', then some people may find it hard to follow. Their logical leaps are not similar to yours. Some may say it is better to keep it a little more simple. This may be the case sometimes, but it is not the rule. It is nice to be able to get as descriptive as you want to and to truly try to relay your concept to someone else- the beauty of language! Not all audiences are going to 'get' you. That can be frustrating. My aunt doesn't 'get' me, though I'd like her to. Sad lol.

(for the record, I am a talker when I grocery shop too Smile )
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