Male Circumcision for Atheists?
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05-10-2012, 09:02 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(05-10-2012 09:00 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Ever? Or just this time?
This time. Tongue

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05-10-2012, 09:05 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(05-10-2012 08:22 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Here is a secular argument:

church >>> from >>> state
^^^ ---------------------- VVV
from----------------------- from ------ Laughat
^^^ ---------------------- VVV
state <<< from <<< church


(sometimes I even impress myself! Drinking Beverage )

For me, it looks more like an circular argument.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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05-10-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
Vos and Marco,

You're German, right?

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05-10-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(04-10-2012 07:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I need to stay away from here, I don't even have a penis!

However, here goes:

The head is more sensitive. The foreskin protects it. That's why all the creatures with penises outside their bodies have foreskins.

For intercourse, it's a never no mind for either party. Except, according to my gay buddies, during anal intercourse. Which doesn't really make sense to me, but I am not going to argue with them.

Diseases, if you don't slide the foreskin back when you shower to wash under it, maybe you could get some crud in there and hence an infection. Just like the religious stuff, this belongs to a time and place when people barely ever washed, had no showers and probably had smelly, cruddy penises. Probably stoning people to death for extra marital affairs also came from that - don't pass the possible infections around in the population.

If I had a penis, I would want my foreskin too. Keep it nice and snug in there.

So when is everyone going to discuss vaginas? Tongue

What's to discuss? They should stay uncut. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-10-2012, 09:19 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(05-10-2012 09:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Vos and Marco,

You're German, right?

Sure, why?

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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05-10-2012, 09:52 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(04-10-2012 04:05 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Now back to our regularly scheduled program.......

I will do so when you do so. You derailed the thread over a comment that got no replies and did nothing to derail it.

(04-10-2012 07:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  So when is everyone going to discuss vaginas? Tongue

While it is a disgusting and pressing matter, it is not nearly as common as male genital mutliation.

I am not circumcised.

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05-10-2012, 11:02 AM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
I've had a lot of friends with male children who wouldn't even consider NOT circumcising, and they're atheists. This sort of blew my mind, until I realized it was basically for two reasons (1) tradition: "everybody else is cutting off their babies' foreskins, so we should too." They also think that the child's later sex partners will be horrified if they see a foreskin. This is creepy because it means they're already thinking about their kid's penis in that way, and the reason Americans think circ'd is "normal" is just because it's what they see the most of. and (2) what I consider outright lies about cleanliness and health. Seriously, if not getting circ'd made you get penile cancer or something, how in the hell is most of Europe still alive? Lots of uncirc'd people get along just fine still having foreskins. I also think the doctors just want the extra cash from cutting up dongs, and so they don't oppose some of this nonsense. If you want to be clean, wash yourself.

It also bothers me about all the nonsense spread by people, like it's "painful to touch yourself" if you have a foreskin, no one will screw you if you have a foreskin, it's unclean, you'll get STDs, you'll get penis cancer and your dick will fall off. Seriously. I can't believe nonreligious people believe this kind of crap. For evidence to the contrary, just look to all the places where circumcision is NOT the norm.

I guess I can understand if an adult male would want to be because he thinks it looks normal or better, hell, adults can do anything they please with their genitals as far as I'm concerned, but I just can't get past the idea that people do an elective surgery on a baby boy's genitalia. Then they say it's harmless and doesn't hurt him. I don't even have kids, but I've changed diapers of post-circ babies, and they act like it hurts, they scream, it looks like it would hurt like hell. But people tell me I should mind my own business and not tell them why I think it's barbaric, but yeah, I kinda think it's barbaric.
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05-10-2012, 12:22 PM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
There's a reason it is enforced after birth, because we therefore can not restrain it as our ability is not bloomed, and once we mature and discover, obviously we will not submit willingly. I'll let nutty boy Dr. Harvey Kellogg (Kellogg Cereal founder) explain it better, or rather....worse....

“A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.”

Furthermore, on the persistent construction of destroying the possibilities of erections through circumcision he writes,

“The prepuce, or foreskin, is drawn forward over the glands, and the needle to which the wire is attached is passed through from one side to the other. After drawing the wire through, the ends are twisted together, and cut off close. It is now impossible for an erection to occur, and the slight irritation thus produced acts as a most powerful means of overcoming the disposition to resort to the practice.”

I am willing to gamble my every dollar that my own mother did not have me circumcised for these reasons, or any at all other than she thought it was mandatory because everyone she knew did it to their sons as well. I am also certain this would be the case for the vast majority of the modern religious world, therefore you can account most if not all circumcisions as irresponsible parenting in the very least.

Leviticus does not justify stupidity, but it is more than enough to define corruption of the human mind.

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05-10-2012, 12:42 PM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(05-10-2012 08:22 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Here is a secular argument:

church >>> from >>> state
^^^ ---------------------- VVV
from----------------------- from ------ Laughat
^^^ ---------------------- VVV
state <<< from <<< church


(sometimes I even impress myself! Drinking Beverage )
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That one's very good.

(05-10-2012 09:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Vos and Marco,

You're German, right?

They do have quite the sense of humor, don't they. Wink








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05-10-2012, 12:54 PM
RE: Male Circumcision for Atheists?
(05-10-2012 12:22 PM)Matthew Laramore Wrote:  I am willing to gamble my every dollar that my own mother did not have me circumcised for these reasons, or any at all other than she thought it was mandatory because everyone she knew did it to their sons as well. I am also certain this would be the case for the vast majority of the modern religious world, therefore you can account most if not all circumcisions as irresponsible parenting in the very least.
Agreed. And the same goes for my friends who have male children, or my parents and my brother (I don't have a penis, so it doesn't apply directly). At least in the US, parents (regardless of religion or lack thereof) just seem to think it's mandatory. They don't even consider any other option, and this is reinforced by doctors telling them it's the right and hygienic thing to do. And that's why i wish people were more open to talking about it, at least. I wish people would at least look at the facts and consider it carefully.

I've talked about this with atheist parents of male children, and they look at me like I've completely lost my mind if I question the supposed usefulness of circumcision. And again, i just can't fathom doing a painful, unnecessarily, elective surgery on a helpless infant without his consent.

I don't call these people irresponsible, but I do it's reprehensible that they seem to willing to just do what everyone else is doing without even questioning it, especially when something like removing a piece of flesh is concerned.
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