Malevolent God; a moral deconstruction
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30-06-2011, 04:52 AM
RE: Malevolent God; a moral deconstruction
perithoos Wrote:That wasn't claimed actually: these are mostly universal values shared across cultures, religions and epochs, which are a consequence of human nature and evolution (an enlightened believer would say God precisely fine-tuned creation so that humans emerged with natural instincts in line with the ethics he intended for them). The point made was that Kant hadn't invented anything.

Actually your answer begs the question, if god made humans naturally in line with his brand of ethics, then why make laws at all? If god made humans naturally in line with his ethics, why is there so many different beliefs about what is ethical and what is not ethical. Morals and ethics are very subjective, to claim there are "universal" morals means one does not have a good grasp on human history, or how the though process works.

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01-07-2011, 07:49 PM
RE: Malevolent God; a moral deconstruction
(30-06-2011 04:52 AM)monkeyshine89 Wrote:  Actually your answer begs the question, if god made humans naturally in line with his brand of ethics, then why make laws at all? If god made humans naturally in line with his ethics, why is there so many different beliefs about what is ethical and what is not ethical. Morals and ethics are very subjective, to claim there are "universal" morals means one does not have a good grasp on human history, or how the though process works.

The point made was that the seeds of absolute ethics pre-exist in humans; but these must grow by nourishing themselves from history, theology, revelation etc. before perfection is achieved. This a noisy – in the physics sense of the word - process, which explains discrepancies across time and space about what with think is true. The truth itself however, never changes and is waiting to be discovered by mankind.
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01-07-2011, 08:41 PM
RE: Malevolent God; a moral deconstruction
(01-07-2011 07:49 PM)Perithoos Wrote:  The point made was that the seeds of absolute ethics pre-exist in humans; but these must grow by nourishing themselves from history, theology, revelation etc. before perfection is achieved. This a noisy – in the physics sense of the word - process, which explains discrepancies across time and space about what with think is true. The truth itself however, never changes and is waiting to be discovered by mankind.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a whole bunch of mythical magic BS to me. This seems like a more reasonable answer.

1. Humans do not have an exclusive right on morals, ethics, or hell, even laws within a society. This has been documented in many animals, especially great apes.
2. The reason we have these morals, ethics, laws is not due to some divine or magical origin, but due to plain old survival. Just like in today's societies, people all got together and decided what worked to keep their society humming along.
3. Since humans are well... humans, we see some common themes, murder is wrong, don't steal... all of these things are really not good for society, and therefore not good for one's own survival as well.
4.Of course we have variation, murder is wrong, but it's okay in select circumstances, lying is wrong, but it's okay in select circumstances. Not only that but different societies have different laws all together.

Neither of this is really based on assumption that some magical being came across the cosmos and planted seeds of goodness within an undetectable human soul. These answers to the development of morality and ethics actually has been researched by anthropologists. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a budding philosopher, anthropologist, or historian, I just know what most people should know about basic human development.

I'm not a betting gal, but if I was I would certainly put my chips on something that is based on evidence, can be researched, and make claims from evidence and research, not an idea that I need to make crazy assumptions for, and when the puzzle pieces don't fit, employ me own ideas and thoughts.

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