Malevolent or benevolent universe?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-09-2013, 06:54 PM
Malevolent or benevolent universe?
On another forum, I got pinged over to a thread by some Christians to answer a question. They basically wanted to watch some atheists squirm while trying to answer and they implied that if we couldn't then that was evidence of God. In the midst of debating with them one of them asked me if "I liked the world the way it is?". I answered that I loved this world and it struck me as funny that most Christians I have met hold a malevolent universe view, at least about Earth, while I as an atheist hold a benevolent universe view. I who am supposed to feel sad that life has no meaning or purpose and am supposed to be angry all the time (this is what I get told by Christians about my atheism) feel that this world is wonderful and not a veil of tears to be suffered through until that glorious day when I die and leave this fallen planet. It got me to thinking, what do most atheists think? So what say you? Do you say "life's a bitch and then you die" or "carpe diem!". Or, do you think the universe is neither malevolent or benevolent but neutral. By the way I don't mean to imply any consciousnesses with those terms, Just whether, in this life, man is doomed to fail and any happiness is fleeting and the exception to the rule versus this world is a realm of possibilities and wonders and man can achieve happiness though it is not guaranteed.

Here was my answer to the Christian. She never came back with a comment.

"Yes, without hesitation, without reservation, absolutely I can say that I love this earth and existence. I don’t have enough superlatives to describe it. Have you ever eaten a slice of apple pie or been present at the birth of your child. Have you ever climbed in the high mountains and seen a crystal clear lake and felt the cool wind on your face. Have you ever had sex with someone you love deeply? I love knowing that my mind is capable of understanding the world and there is so much to do and achieve and to see. There is such joy possible to us in this world that it is almost to much to take.

At the same time I do see the evil in the world and the utter depravity that man is capable of. I have known great joy and deep sadness. My wife and I lost our first child to a severe birth defect and I can say that that was the worst time in my life. But as Ayn Rand used to say the bad things only go down so deep. They don’t shake my view that this world is wonderful and life is so very, very precious. I don’t damn this Earth and existence as so many do."

I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like true scotsman's post
19-09-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
The problem isn't "mal" or "bene", it's the "vol" part.

The universe lacks volition.

Quote:in this life, man is doomed to fail and any happiness is fleeting and the exception to the rule versus this world is a realm of possibilities and wonders and man can achieve happiness though it is not guaranteed.

Both these.

People will fail. And succeed.

Happiness is fleeting, possible, and wonderful.

No particular event or feeling is guaranteed at a given time... but everyone feels joy, triumph, despair, hope, and so on. Even if it's confined in a given person to learning to walk, they will feel all those feelings, before they can articulate any of them.

WWMWAZSKDTVQHTMJD?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like I Am's post
19-09-2013, 07:15 PM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
The universe is indifferent although I am not indifferent toward it. So much of the universe is fatally hostile to biological life. Even on this planet the environment is hostile to survival. The scope of it makes me feel greatful that I am fortunate enough not only to live, but also to have a life that is not all consumed with the struggle to survive. I find the universe to be beautiful and ugly, bountiful and cruel and all together amazing. It has no purpose in being any of these things. It just, indifferently, is.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like NoSkyDaddy's post
19-09-2013, 09:37 PM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
(19-09-2013 07:15 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  The universe is indifferent although I am not indifferent toward it. So much of the universe is fatally hostile to biological life. Even on this planet the environment is hostile to survival. The scope of it makes me feel greatful that I am fortunate enough not only to live, but also to have a life that is not all consumed with the struggle to survive. I find the universe to be beautiful and ugly, bountiful and cruel and all together amazing. It has no purpose in being any of these things. It just, indifferently, is.
THIS!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-09-2013, 11:40 PM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
The universe is indifferent... it's unconscious, has no emotions, and no plan.

I'm comfortable with that idea...

While the universe can be both wonderful and terrible, it is fair... it does not judge, it does not expect, it does not promise, it does not deceive, it does not punish, it does not reward.

A lot more appealing to me than a god, regardless of whether he's inherently benevolent or malevolent.[/i]

[img]

via GIPHY

[/img]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2013, 09:19 AM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
(19-09-2013 11:40 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  The universe is indifferent... it's unconscious, has no emotions, and no plan.

I'm comfortable with that idea...

While the universe can be both wonderful and terrible, it is fair... it does not judge, it does not expect, it does not promise, it does not deceive, it does not punish, it does not reward.

A lot more appealing to me than a god, regardless of whether he's inherently benevolent or malevolent.[/i]

Almost there.

It's not even fair. Or unfair.

It just is.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2013, 09:32 AM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
I think this is a great question. Actually I can say as a believer I thought this world was mostly evil. Not because I did not have a good life, but we compare it to paradise. So earth could never be paradise so believers begin to hate this world and the more religious you are the more you want the end to come so you can go to paradise. As an atheist I love this world now. I am in awe at how amazing it is even though it is not perfect. I cherish it now and do not want to waste it. Doing anything now is so special even looking at another human being makes me reflect on how great that our species have made it and how much their is to enjoy. One thing about the fanatic Muslims is their life is so miserable that is why they choose to be martyrs. Everything is a sin dancing, playing cards, laughing, clapping the list goes on and on. So no wonder people of faith can not see much beauty in this world.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Confused12345's post
20-09-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
(20-09-2013 09:32 AM)Confused12345 Wrote:  I think this is a great question. Actually I can say as a believer I thought this world was mostly evil. Not because I did not have a good life, but we compare it to paradise. So earth could never be paradise so believers begin to hate this world and the more religious you are the more you want the end to come so you can go to paradise. As an atheist I love this world now. I am in awe at how amazing it is even though it is not perfect. I cherish it now and do not want to waste it. Doing anything now is so special even looking at another human being makes me reflect on how great that our species have made it and how much their is to enjoy. One thing about the fanatic Muslims is their life is so miserable that is why they choose to be martyrs. Everything is a sin dancing, playing cards, laughing, clapping the list goes on and on. So no wonder people of faith can not see much beauty in this world.

My sentiments exactly. Ironic isn't it that now that you are an atheist you feel like the the world is wonderful. That is one reason I can't be religious, it is anti this world.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes true scotsman's post
20-09-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
True Scotsman, it is so ironic. It is so funny that the Atheist are the ones that see such beauty in life. So many views have improved. Like as a believer we are victims, something bad happened it is God's will! Now as an Atheist I know we humans can change this world as we choose. It is our decisions that will mold our world. By the way Love Scotland Smile Never went to any shows during the Fringe festival until this summer when I became an Atheist and so I now try to live life to the fullest!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2013, 10:36 AM
RE: Malevolent or benevolent universe?
(20-09-2013 10:05 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 09:32 AM)Confused12345 Wrote:  I think this is a great question. Actually I can say as a believer I thought this world was mostly evil. Not because I did not have a good life, but we compare it to paradise. So earth could never be paradise so believers begin to hate this world and the more religious you are the more you want the end to come so you can go to paradise. As an atheist I love this world now. I am in awe at how amazing it is even though it is not perfect. I cherish it now and do not want to waste it. Doing anything now is so special even looking at another human being makes me reflect on how great that our species have made it and how much their is to enjoy. One thing about the fanatic Muslims is their life is so miserable that is why they choose to be martyrs. Everything is a sin dancing, playing cards, laughing, clapping the list goes on and on. So no wonder people of faith can not see much beauty in this world.

My sentiments exactly. Ironic isn't it that now that you are an atheist you feel like the the world is wonderful. That is one reason I can't be religious, it is anti this world.

No true scotsman could say it fairer.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: