Malignant narcissism
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02-02-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
I wondered if narcissism shows up in brain scans and it seems it does.

http://www.livescience.com/37684-narciss...cture.html

Researchers used magnetic resonance imaging to scan the brains of 34 people, including 17 individuals who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, and found that pathological narcissists have less gray matter in a part of the cerebral cortex called the left anterior insula. Gray matter is primarily composed of neuron cell bodies and non-neuron brain cells that provide nutrients and energy to neurons, rather than sending and receiving information.

The left anterior insula region of the brain, which is thought to be involved with cognitive functioning and the regulation of emotion, has also been tied to the generation of compassion and empathy.

"This was already a region of interest for empathy, but for the first time, we were able to show that it is structurally correlated in the brain,"


I've known a few egocentric actors and dancers but I just figured they were self centered artists. Maybe they were narcissists.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-02-2017, 10:24 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 09:41 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  ---
I've known a few egocentric actors and dancers but I just figured they were self centered artists. Maybe they were narcissists.

I've thought about this, too and I know quite a few artists & performers, as well. I think, in order to perform, one might need to have a certain degree of ego - possibly even a mammoth portion. Dodgy

However, to be a really good story teller of any kind (be it musician, painter, actor, dancer, etc.,.) and be in the creative moment, as it were, one must also dig deeply into empathy. That really is the only way to play well with others... and by others, I include the paint, the music, the other players and the audience.

The arts can be a bit of a struggle for the human brain.
This might be way off the thread subject but, I often think of an obscure couple of tossed off lines from the Dudley Moore movie, Arthur:
Not everyone who drinks is a poet. Some of us drink because we're not poets.

I also think if one can even feel that sorry for one's self, narcissism isn't entirely in the makeup. From what I've encountered, the majority of narcissists rarely abuse drugs. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-02-2017, 10:43 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 09:35 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:25 AM)Dom Wrote:  Actually, malignant narcissism is a disease without cure. At this time the prevalent theory is that this happens to the infant at the time when it learns to distinguish between "I" and "you". For some reason this transition is never made. The malignant narcissist is the only human, and is forced to take part in some sort of script where s/he has to function among all these other forces. S/he then figures out that the script can be manipulated, and that emotions can be faked. So the narcissist studies people and what triggers which emotions.

Faking the emotions sometimes results in extremely expressive facial movements, the one external possible indicator.

This sounds very much like clinical psychopathy, as studied by Dr Robert Hare, who actually created a psychopathy checklist, comprised of 20 characteristics:
  • glib and superficial charm
  • grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
  • need for stimulation
  • pathological lying
  • cunning and manipulativeness
  • lack of remorse or guilt
  • shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
  • callousness and lack of empathy
  • parasitic lifestyle
  • poor behavioral controls
  • sexual promiscuity
  • early behavior problems
  • lack of realistic long-term goals
  • impulsivity
  • irresponsibility
  • failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  • many short-term marital relationships
  • juvenile delinquency
  • revocation of conditional release
  • criminal versatility

Looks like the connections between being a psychopath and a malignant narcissist are pretty strong. Perhaps they're just different degrees of the same mental illness..?

Psychopathy is one step beyond malignant narcissism.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-02-2017, 10:46 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 10:51 AM by Dom.)
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 10:24 AM)kim Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:41 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  ---
I've known a few egocentric actors and dancers but I just figured they were self centered artists. Maybe they were narcissists.

I've thought about this, too and I know quite a few artists & performers, as well. I think, in order to perform, one might need to have a certain degree of ego - possibly even a mammoth portion. Dodgy

However, to be a really good story teller of any kind (be it musician, painter, actor, dancer, etc.,.) and be in the creative moment, as it were, one must also dig deeply into empathy. That really is the only way to play well with others... and by others, I include the paint, the music, the other players and the audience.

The arts can be a bit of a struggle for the human brain.
This might be way off the thread subject but, I often think of an obscure couple of tossed off lines from the Dudley Moore movie, Arthur:
Not everyone who drinks is a poet. Some of us drink because we're not poets.

I also think if one can even feel that sorry for one's self, narcissism isn't entirely in the makeup. From what I've encountered, the majority of narcissists rarely abuse drugs. Shy

There is a HUGE difference between narcissists and malignant narcissists. HUGE. Most narcissists can be annoying, but are not at all harmful.

For narcissists, there comes a time when they can't live up to their self image anymore.

The narcissist then becomes depressed and may turn to drugs.

The malignant narcissist then turns to wanting people to hate him/her. It's attention, it's narcissist supply. Any attention will do.

Malignant Narcissists (and others) always feel that they cannot show anyone their "real self". Their entire life is play acting since that is how they learned to cope with reality when they realized the world can be manipulated. There are no lies, they do not recognize lies as such because they themselves are always living in a lie.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-02-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
Yes - the difference is very palpable.
My mom is quite the narcissist and has done her fair share of damage but, she is nowhere near a malignant narcissist.

I do think though, there must be a fine line between the subtle behaviors of the malignant and the average narcissist.
Consider Is there a point where one can become the other; can the average become the malignant - like an achievement? Or is that even how it works?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-02-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 11:24 AM)kim Wrote:  Yes - the difference is very palpable.
My mom is quite the narcissist and has done her fair share of damage but, she is nowhere near a malignant narcissist.

I do think though, there must be a fine line between the subtle behaviors of the malignant and the average narcissist.
Consider Is there a point where one can become the other; can the average become the malignant - like an achievement? Or is that even how it works?

No, you are one or the other.

While any narcissist can lash out when confronted (and any other person too), the malignant narcissist becomes consumed with revenge. Mine ended up calling me every night between 2 and 3 am to leave nasty messages - every night, never failed, for several years til he died. Malignant narcissists love the courts, they love to drag their detractors to court for anything and everything. They particularly like to torture their detractors while looking to others to be loving them. Their revenge is devious and underhanded and hidden. They can look like they are the injured person.

Plain narcissists just have an exaggerated sense of self worth or beauty or intelligence or whatever. There is actually a fragile ego down below. They care very much what others think.

Malignant narcissists must eliminate those who do not agree. They believe what they say. And if the "real self" is revealed, they fall apart. Then they stop even trying to fool anyone and all their supply becomes hate, which suits them just as well.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-02-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 07:44 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I'm a musician.

I'm a cat.

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02-02-2017, 11:54 AM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 11:37 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 07:44 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I'm a musician.

I'm a cat.

I'm Spartacus.

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02-02-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 11:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  No, you are one or the other.

While any narcissist can lash out when confronted (and any other person too), the malignant narcissist becomes consumed with revenge. Mine ended up calling me every night between 2 and 3 am to leave nasty messages - every night, never failed, for several years til he died. Malignant narcissists love the courts, they love to drag their detractors to court for anything and everything. They particularly like to torture their detractors while looking to others to be loving them. Their revenge is devious and underhanded and hidden. They can look like they are the injured person.

Plain narcissists just have an exaggerated sense of self worth or beauty or intelligence or whatever. There is actually a fragile ego down below. They care very much what others think.

Malignant narcissists must eliminate those who do not agree. They believe what they say. And if the "real self" is revealed, they fall apart. Then they stop even trying to fool anyone and all their supply becomes hate, which suits them just as well.

I find this fascinating.
I always hesitate compartmentalizing people but hey, when the shoe demands a fitting ... Shy

I do indeed know at least one, possibly two narcissists who do fit this exact profile. And low and behold ... one works on Wall Street. Dodgy A favorite one, in fact. I've always teased him about his narcissism and he always teased me right back that I'm "the only one who really knows him, who is still alive.". Maybe it is a good thing that I know too much. Wink

The other one, I'm currently dealing with in my immediate circle (a work colleague). What a major pain in the ass! I keep trying to chalk his erratic, rancid acid behavior up to acute immaturity and alcoholism but, the stupid fucker is pushing 40. One of very few assholes I keep at arms length. Undecided
***

Can this behavior be modified if recognized and addressed early in life - like childhood or the teens?

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02-02-2017, 12:32 PM
RE: Malignant narcissism
(02-02-2017 12:12 PM)kim Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 11:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  No, you are one or the other.

While any narcissist can lash out when confronted (and any other person too), the malignant narcissist becomes consumed with revenge. Mine ended up calling me every night between 2 and 3 am to leave nasty messages - every night, never failed, for several years til he died. Malignant narcissists love the courts, they love to drag their detractors to court for anything and everything. They particularly like to torture their detractors while looking to others to be loving them. Their revenge is devious and underhanded and hidden. They can look like they are the injured person.

Plain narcissists just have an exaggerated sense of self worth or beauty or intelligence or whatever. There is actually a fragile ego down below. They care very much what others think.

Malignant narcissists must eliminate those who do not agree. They believe what they say. And if the "real self" is revealed, they fall apart. Then they stop even trying to fool anyone and all their supply becomes hate, which suits them just as well.

I find this fascinating.
I always hesitate compartmentalizing people but hey, when the shoe demands a fitting ... Shy

I do indeed know at least one, possibly two narcissists who do fit this exact profile. And low and behold ... one works on Wall Street. Dodgy A favorite one, in fact. I've always teased him about his narcissism and he always teased me right back that I'm "the only one who really knows him, who is still alive.". Maybe it is a good thing that I know too much. Wink

The other one, I'm currently dealing with in my immediate circle (a work colleague). What a major pain in the ass! I keep trying to chalk his erratic, rancid acid behavior up to acute immaturity and alcoholism but, the stupid fucker is pushing 40. One of very few assholes I keep at arms length. Undecided
***

Can this behavior be modified if recognized and addressed early in life - like childhood or the teens?

Nope. Therapy is pointless because the malignant narcissist will lie to manipulate the therapist. As yet there are no drugs.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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