Man Made Global Warming
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07-11-2011, 08:50 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2011 09:09 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 08:23 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  Waiting is not enough any more, Filox. You have to meet the information half way. That means reading books written by responsible, world-class scientists.

What, Lubos don't count? Kary don't count? How about Freeman Dyson? Tongue

I'm just pulling your tail, Alf. Knew you'd post a link sooner or later. Big Grin

(I mean, I've read a fuckload of this stuff. You have a legitimate point; it is just this issue is so - fucked off - there's been a lotta marginalizing going one)
Gwynne Dyer asks: was Bush an Iranian Sleeper?

I'm sorry, man. This guy seems to be marginalizing himself... He wants to ignite a volcano?!?!

Me and Zat might hafta agree to disagree on this issue.
(07-11-2011 08:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  We have to adapt to changing climates. Currently grow cotton in a dry climate (cotton requires massive amounts of water)? Grow a different plant that uses less water! Currently grow fruits and vegetables in an area that is getting colder and is now susceptible to more frosts later in the growing season, killing your crop? Stop growing fruits and vegetables and grow something else.

The important points are:
1) to adapt to the changing climate because it will continue to change
2) reduce pollution because we have seen higher rates of asthma and other illnesses that are associated with air, water and soil quality
3) stop trying to fix it. Instead, allow nature the time to repair itself. Far to often projects like reef restoration do more damage than good. We go in and try to restore the reef to some level that we deem valuable (despite the fact that we may be restoring it to a previously altered state. For instance natural, healthy reefs that are undisturbed by man have a lot of sharks. I have never seen someone want to restore a reef so as to bring back sharks, that makes snorkling a bit more dangerous). If we simply reduce our trash and pollution output, build smarter building in smarter areas and leave nature alone to repair itself, in a few thousand years it may be able to recover a portion of what has been damaged.
I agree with this stuff. I agree with Zat when it comes to money - that shit is fucking nasty - and yeah, those two go hand in hand. Food distribution is a wank - there's no sense to it (plenty of cents, though)

I'm saying, ya wanna "fix shit" on a big scale, go to a hole like Detroit - rip it up, throw in an Arcoplex - where a million people live in a building. It's feasible, transportation and distribution go down to not much. Ya just gotta "push people around." People don't like that, but tough - if we're the problem, we need to be solved; not the environment.

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07-11-2011, 09:08 AM
 
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 08:50 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  He wants to ignite a volcano?!?!

No, he does NOT.

Read the whole blog or, even better, read "Climate Wars".


(07-11-2011 08:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  ... leave nature alone to repair itself, in a few thousand years it may be able to recover a portion of what has been damaged.

...and it is beautifully described in "The World Without Us" by Alan Weisman.

...otherwise a very good summary, Bearded. Smile
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07-11-2011, 09:12 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2011 09:26 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 09:08 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(07-11-2011 08:50 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  He wants to ignite a volcano?!?!

No, he does NOT.

Read the whole blog or, even better, read "Climate War".


(07-11-2011 08:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  ... in a few thousand years it may be able to recover a portion of what has been damaged.
...and it is beautifully described in "The World Without Us" by Alan Weisman.

Otherwise a very good summary, Bearded. Smile

OK - I'm guilty. Rolleyes I did get kinda stuck right there.
But lemme get this straight - your guy's a London journalist, and my guy's the last happy string theorist?

Tell me it ain't so, Zat!

Here's Lubos's latest rant. He doesn't like it. He's also been called.. ahem, a personality, by other scientists. Tongue

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07-11-2011, 09:58 AM
 
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 09:12 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  your guy's a London journalist, and my guy's the last happy string theorist?

I won't start a reputation-war, Cantor. Big Grin

Read BOOKS, not blogs. I know it's more work but, if you choose reliable sources, you will get much better information.
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07-11-2011, 10:32 AM
RE: Man Made Global Warming
Im in town tommorow so I will go into waterstones and look for that book Zatamon........if they havent got it I shall order it. I do remember you mentioning it before and I respect your viewpoint so I will check the book out.

I do agree that we have to start becoming more Eco Friendly in general......however I dont see the worldwide view of carbon taxing as the soloution.......pushed in USA a lot of the time by Al Gore who I have since discovered has "vested interests" in a lot of companys that will profit from the changes that are gonna take place within the next 5 years.

I thought I had all my research saved on my computer (about a years worth....damn damn damn damn Sad) but have realised Ive lost it last time I hardwiped my computer.......I need an external hardrive I think or a memory stick to save my research on.

I know I have some very "outlandish" viewpoints on the world and how it is run in general but what the mainstream authorities say..........its just bullshit and I will endeavour to find my research again to share it with you.

In the 70s there was a guy (need my notes.....he was one of the presidents advisors Sad) who said that the antartic was freeing over and that it would get that bad that it would affect the earth.......now they are saying the opposite.

Well they will soon install "smart meters" in peoples homes around the world (its allready starting in some countries) and needless to say I think people should look up these smart meters and what they are capable of recieving.

I have done my research on this.........I do know what im on about and believe me I allways keep an open mind on what I look at to come to "sane" decision....they seem to allways say "we are causing the earth to warm up" yet they never mention how ALL of the planets in our solar system are warming up as well..........never.

I can guarantee that "there" solution to this is basicly taxing you on it.......which isnt a solution......its simply a means of control and making money.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

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07-11-2011, 10:48 AM
 
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 10:32 AM)bemore Wrote:  Im in town tommorow so I will go into waterstones and look for that book Zatamon........if they havent got it I shall order it. I do remember you mentioning it before and I respect your viewpoint so I will check the book out.

The Gwynne Dyer (a Historian) book ("Climate Wars") mostly deals with the nature, the seriousness and the possible/inevitable consequences of the climate change disaster.

The Andrew Weaver (a Scientist) book ("Keeping our Cool") deals with the causes (including human) of Climate Change and what we can do to lessen the impact.

You decide, bemore, which aspect you are more interested in, before spending money. Smile
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07-11-2011, 11:32 AM
RE: Man Made Global Warming
This book came out in 1972.
At the time, we heard a lot of capitalist pundits saying, "Aw, come on! People have been predicting disaster for eons, and it's never happened."* By the same logic, since my death has been predicted and i haven't died, i must be immortal.
By 1976, when all the international talk resulted in no action - indeed, growth was accelerated and governments all over the world were caving to church objections against birth control.... and then we in Toronto began to drink water bottled in France... i knew it's too late: we're well and royally screwed.


* (which of course was a lie; most of the predicted disasters had happened, but it's convenient to forget whatever didn't happen in our own lifetime)

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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07-11-2011, 11:43 AM
 
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 11:32 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  This book came out in 1972.
At the time, we heard a lot of capitalist pundits saying, "Aw, come on! People have been predicting disaster for eons, and it's never happened."*

* (which of course was a lie; most of the predicted disasters had happened, but it's convenient to forget whatever didn't happen in our own lifetime)

Warning, after warning, after warning issued. The suicidal behaviour accelerated.

World Scientists' Warning To Humanity

Some 1,700 of the world's leading scientists, including the majority of Nobel laureates in the sciences, issued this appeal in November 1992.


Quote: Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course. Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources. If not checked, many of our current practices put at serious risk the future that we wish for human society and the plant and animal kingdoms, and may so alter the living world that it will be unable to sustain life in the manner that we know. Fundamental changes are urgent if we are to avoid the collision our present course will bring about.


If you don't believe your scientists, who do you believe? Politicians, Corporations? Priests?

Huh
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07-11-2011, 11:48 AM
RE: Man Made Global Warming
I know, Zat. You the man - I ain't saying you ain't. More like wondering if you read Lubos. I've read books; but this issue is just - nasty - for lack of a better word.

Are we being dumb? Yeah, we do that a lot. I don't see Lubos as a denier, he's a skeptic - he's also got the goods, as far as I have seen. Like I said, others have called him - a personality.

I'm more towards "we're fucking the dog" on this - but carbon tax? That's freaking insane. 7 blimps fulla sulfur? That's excessive. If Mobl's right, and we crash the global mean a coupla C - and if the chaos theorists are right, trying to predict weather long term using deterministic chaos - those two things add up in my mind to ice age - you know we're closer to ice age than anything else?

I'm thinking, if we're the problem; we gotta be thinking of solving us. And I'm an American - Sam Harris told me last night 28 percent of this population accept evolution - 72 percent believe in angles - we're not actually "Can Do" in America right now...

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07-11-2011, 11:54 AM
 
RE: Man Made Global Warming
(07-11-2011 11:48 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ... but carbon tax? That's freaking insane.

You said it, Cantor -- only an insane species would opt for that.

It is like the pope selling indulgences to the sinners. Angry
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