Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
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31-01-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
(31-01-2014 10:24 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  ... I was the same way, too. I would just assume there was no contradiction because I didn't want there to be one. If one was pointed out, I'd use some vague excuse of "mysterious ways". Wishful thinking, I guess.

Yes, I agree with this point. It's kind of what I meant when I said, being an never-believer, I have a hard time believing anyone actually believes any of this. I've discovered over the years they have, but it's still hard to believe they actually can, because...I'm come one, really?!

But that's the point. It their evasiveness, and the refusal to self inspect or examine, or look at other evidence, to me that's all signs of somewhere deep down not really buying it, but as long as they refuse to acknowledge it they can still believe it, as long as they just don't look harder at it.

It's why so many Christians don't have next to a clue what it actually says in the bible, and why when you really engage many of them in conversations about what it really says, or our evidence of reality (aka, science) their eyes just gloss over. If they really believed it all, they would not have a defense mechanism in place for hearing it.

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31-01-2014, 11:24 AM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
(31-01-2014 11:14 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Yes, I agree with this point. It's kind of what I meant when I said, being an never-believer, I have a hard time believing anyone actually believes any of this. I've discovered over the years they have, but it's still hard to believe they actually can, because...I'm come one, really?!

What's weirder, is I think I even saw it coming on some level, but wouldn't admit it. I remember back when I was in college (so, between five and ten years to me ultimately becoming atheist), and I saw something on a movie. One character said something to the effect of "You don't so much believe in God as you believe in the religion.". I was already getting to the point where I sometimes wouldn't "feel" God, and I felt like that was me.

Like, it was important enough for me to be Christian regardless of whether or not I believed in the Christian god or any of the teachings. Who knows. Maybe I thought that if I could stay half-way there, that God would eventually just enter my life (reminds me of a good No Country for Old Men quote).

Cognitive dissonance, man! It sucks! I remember being mad at myself for quite a while due to my willful self deception.
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31-01-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
Why does this ability to investigate and entertain questions have to disappear whether you absolutely believe it, or somewhat believe in it? I have also never been close to being an actual believer (although went through the motions raised Catholic), so I can't grasp the reason why when presented with an old book of stories, it becomes the basis of all truth with the regard for science, evidence, and real world information thrown out the window. Boggles my mind!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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31-01-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
(31-01-2014 11:24 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(31-01-2014 11:14 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Yes, I agree with this point. It's kind of what I meant when I said, being an never-believer, I have a hard time believing anyone actually believes any of this. I've discovered over the years they have, but it's still hard to believe they actually can, because...I'm come one, really?!

What's weirder, is I think I even saw it coming on some level, but wouldn't admit it. I remember back when I was in college (so, between five and ten years to me ultimately becoming atheist), and I saw something on a movie. One character said something to the effect of "You don't so much believe in God as you believe in the religion.". I was already getting to the point where I sometimes wouldn't "feel" God, and I felt like that was me.

Like, it was important enough for me to be Christian regardless of whether or not I believed in the Christian god or any of the teachings. Who knows. Maybe I thought that if I could stay half-way there, that God would eventually just enter my life (reminds me of a good No Country for Old Men quote).

Cognitive dissonance, man! It sucks! I remember being mad at myself for quite a while due to my willful self deception.

Right, and that pretty much sums up my general assumption of what's really going on in a great number of Christian's heads. Granted, you can never know for sure, but I have many friends that never talk about "God" or religion. But if it's brought up they are on board, and express some vague ideas of their belief. And when I hear it I just think to myself, "I know you. I know you couldn't actually believe that. It seems more like your just saying a reply that you know sounds good, and that your are supposed to give, but I don't think you really think that."

I could be more wrong than I'm right, but I just don't believe the majority of Christians actually believe what they "believe". I think most are exactly like that quote, they believe in religion more than they believe in Jesus. I think that's dead on.

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31-01-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
I wish there was a study that could be done in which answered how many of them actually believe, how many of them deceive themselves into thinking they still believe, when they really don't, and how many of them don't actually believe but just go along with it socially and try not to think about their beliefs themselves as no to expose them to themselves.

Of course, there would be no way to get accurate answers out of that subject. But I would love to know the truth of it.

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31-01-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
That fb post treating god like some computer tech support wizard does kinda look like a couple sarcastic friends with an inside joke.

The smartest man in the world once said:
"There are no Christians that actually believe what they claim to believe."
And he became very cross when his authority was questioned... Hurling bolts of spiteful, razor sharp insults from atop his throne where he does bask in his own omniscience. Every Christians thoughts and beliefs laid before him... For he has seen that not a single one of them believes what they claim to believe.
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31-01-2014, 01:21 PM
Re: RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
(31-01-2014 12:46 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  That fb post treating god like some computer tech support wizard does kinda look like a couple sarcastic friends with an inside joke.

The smartest man in the world once said:
"There are no Christians that actually believe what they claim to believe."
And he became very cross when his authority was questioned... Hurling bolts of spiteful, razor sharp insults from atop his throne where he does bask in his own omniscience. Every Christians thoughts and beliefs laid before him... For he has seen that not a single one of them believes what they claim to believe.

Why do you guys think I'm the only one to say this? Do you guys ever research things or just have circle jerks?

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31-01-2014, 01:33 PM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
WeAreTheCosmos, take it to another thread, please. I just got this back on track: talking about theists inconsistent views and actions. Tongue
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31-01-2014, 02:04 PM
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
(31-01-2014 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  WeAreTheCosmos, take it to another thread, please. I just got this back on track: talking about theists inconsistent views and actions. Tongue

This thread is about what Christians believe. Phil knows exactly what they believe so. Was calling upon his all knowing splendor. He was the one who went off topic initially by moving the goalposts to action instead of belief.

Oh but look at that! You ALSO want to talk about views and actions! The topic has never been more ON. Or as Phil would say, "moron"!

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31-01-2014, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2014 02:13 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Many Christians don't believe their own apologetics
(31-01-2014 02:04 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(31-01-2014 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  WeAreTheCosmos, take it to another thread, please. I just got this back on track: talking about theists inconsistent views and actions. Tongue

This thread is about what Christians believe. Phil knows exactly what they believe so. Was calling upon his all knowing splendor. He was the one who went off topic initially by moving the goalposts to action instead of belief.

Oh but look at that! You ALSO want to talk about views and actions! The topic has never been more ON. Or as Phil would say, "moron"!

Thumbsup

Let's leave the Phil portion behind.

What I find personally distasteful are the Christian types who believe its ok to lie for the sake of Jesus.

Like some Christians who claim they were once atheists simply because their parents didn't drag their asses to church every Sunday.

But when they make the claim they were once "atheists" and now see the "light" it just annoys my sense of fair play.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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