Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
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18-08-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
I'm curious how far pro-lifers are willing to go. Even if abortion is made illegal, women will still seek them, either by flying out to a country that will perform them or by finding less-safe methods ex: coat hangers and rat poison.

Furthermore, if abortion is made illegal, would we criminalize women who still have them done? What about women who miscarry? Would we investigate their private life to determine whether or not they intentionally aborted their foetus? What if they weren't aware they were pregnant and did something that resulted in a miscarry?

Where would you draw the line?

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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18-08-2016, 08:33 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 08:25 AM)Loom Wrote:  I'm curious how far pro-lifers are willing to go. Even if abortion is made illegal, women will still seek them, either by flying out to a country that will perform them or by finding less-safe methods ex: coat hangers and rat poison.

Furthermore, if abortion is made illegal, would we criminalize women who still have them done? What about women who miscarry? Would we investigate their private life to determine whether or not they intentionally aborted their foetus? What if they weren't aware they were pregnant and did something that resulted in a miscarry?

Where would you draw the line?

This is why Roe v Wade is so important...so we don't have to go back to those days.

As for Heywood's 'line', he still hasn't answered my question regarding when we 'have to kill'.

He is holding onto his moral high ground and for that there needs to be no real reason other than what exists in his own head...and he thinks it should apply to everyone.

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18-08-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 08:25 AM)Loom Wrote:  coat hangers and rat poison.

Having lived in that era, knitting needles were the instrument of choice. Easy to disinfect in boiling water, and they can be moved with better targeting. You don't have precise feeling in your uterus, and you can't see. The drawback was the pointy end - many bled out due to perforation.

Chances of survival were slim, but it was one step up from suicide - you had a chance of survival.

Underground abortionists were even worse....

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-08-2016, 10:16 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 02:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 01:44 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  This is the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

There is no "the people of Texas don't want it". Many of the people of Texas do not want it; many others do.

Rights have never been based on "majority rules". We also forced the majority of Texans to serve black people at the lunch counters, to let them vote, and to stop forcing them to do unpaid labor.

The killing of another human being isn't a right. Collectively, we have decided not to prosecute people for it under certain circumstances....except in the case of abortion when the supreme court forced it upon every state.

I assume, given your stance, you're also opposed to the death penalty?
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18-08-2016, 10:20 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 10:30 AM by Aliza.)
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 01:53 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 07:32 PM)Aliza Wrote:  The pro-cruelty movement that you belong to wants to force women to carry sick, diseased or unwanted embryos to term, yet they offer no long term care for those babies, thus forcing them to live a life of misery, poverty and under privilege. I’m not entirely sure how you sleep at night, but this seems to be the will of folks down in the pro-cruelty camp. As a cruel individual yourself, you want to force your will onto people who want to be humane and considerate to the human population by giving each and every person a fair shake at a successful and happy life. What you’re doing is nothing short of disgusting. It’s child abuse, and you should be thrown in jail for forcing a child to go through life with severe medical problems and no hope of a good quality of life.

The people of Texas are not being forced to have abortions themselves. They’re just not being allowed to force their will onto other people.

Oh, and an embryo isn’t a human. As a religious person, I’m saying it doesn’t have a soul. By not destroying a sick, diseased fetus, you’re forcing a soul into a faulty body when it could have otherwise gone into a healthy body.

I sleep well. I don't conflate issues like you seem to be doing here.. Whether or not prolifers are willing to care for unwanted and or disabled babies has no relevance to the question of is it right or wrong to kill those babies in the womb.

Also the vast majority of babies that are aborted are perfectly healthy.

First of all, the pro-cruelty people’s refusal to care for every single would-be aborted baby is one of the reasons they’re called cruel. They’re the ones out there picketing and shooting up abortion clinics. They want their will imposed on other people, but they want everyone else but themselves to do the leg work. And most surprisingly, the people they expect to do the leg work are the very people who have professed an unwillingness to do so.

I would agree that the vast majority of pregnancies that are aborted may likely have been perfectly healthy. But most of these abortions occur to embryos that didn’t have a brain, let alone a comprehensive health profile. We’ll never know for sure, but I suspect you’re right about this. Although this thread is about sick babies being aborted, I maintain that parents who do not want the responsibility of parenting will only make their child’s life miserable, and raising an unwanted child could harm the parent’s future. The name of the game, after all, is life, not just subsistence.

We both seem to agree (as do the others on this forum) that it’s wrong to kill another person. We just seem to have a disconnect as to whether or not a fetus is a person. I don’t get my understanding on this from your pastor. I get it from the bible, and as I pointed out in a previous post, the bible values the life of a fetus significantly lower than it values the life of the mother. A fetus has the status in Jewish Law as potential life, not life. As a religious woman, I trust G-d to arm me with the information that I need to live my life in accordance with the law that he gave to my people. Your opinion of my book and my people’s ways doesn’t factor in. It means absolutely nothing.

If you and your people are so against abortion, then get out there and start building homes and contributing money and man hours to the rearing and care of these would-be aborted babies. I’m sure you’ll make a huge dent on the problem if you can feed, clothe and house these mothers and their babies. I'll even send in a donation.
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18-08-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 10:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  If you and your people are so against abortion, then get out there and start building homes and contributing money and man hours to the rearing and care of these would-be aborted babies. I’m sure you’ll make a huge dent on the problem if you can feed, clothe and house these mothers and their babies. I'll even send in a donation.

Exactly. Thumbsup

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18-08-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 10:26 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 10:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  If you and your people are so against abortion, then get out there and start building homes and contributing money and man hours to the rearing and care of these would-be aborted babies. I’m sure you’ll make a huge dent on the problem if you can feed, clothe and house these mothers and their babies. I'll even send in a donation.

Exactly. Thumbsup

A great start...don't forget medical care and education expenses.

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18-08-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 10:34 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 10:26 AM)Dom Wrote:  Exactly. Thumbsup

A great start...don't forget medical care and education expenses.

And in the case of Zika babies - life long complete care. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They will be totally helpless.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-08-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 12:52 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-08-2016 03:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Sure, let's not think about the kind of 'life' the child could have.

What an ass.

If a birth defect alone is enough to justify killing an unborn child wouldn't it also be enough to justify killing a child that was born with a defect?

You see in your mind(it seems to me anyways) that you don't care that the unborn child has a birth defect...the fact it is unborn is enough to justify allowing the mother kill to it. Rubio takes a different perspective. He doesn't accept your premise that just because the child is unborn that justifies allowing the mother to kill it.

Should mothers be allowed to kill offspring that have birth defects? Rubio thinks not and what exactly is wrong with that?

You are just being a demagogue by attempting to conflate arguments for abortion rights with birth defects. Birth defects have nothing to do with whether or not a woman should have the right to kill her unborn child. So please stop pretending they do.

Have you ever seen a child with micro/anencephaly?
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18-08-2016, 07:58 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 08:03 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(18-08-2016 10:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I assume, given your stance, you're also opposed to the death penalty?

I would like to be in favor of the death penalty but my moral code isn't as whimsical as so many of the people who visit this forum(like Anjele's for instance). I believe it is wrong to kill another human being unless you absolutely have too. In this country(USA) I cannot honestly say that we have to kill convicts. In this country I believe the death penalty is immoral even though I would like to see murders and rapists hanged.

Now suppose you had a society that simply lacked the resources for long term incarceration....say Gilligan's Island. If the Professor goes apeshit one day and cuts Lovey's throat, that society has a right to protect itself from the future actions the Professor might take. That society wouldn't have the resources to lock up and guard the Professor 24 hours a day 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. I would be okay with capital punishment in that instance because the only way the society can protect itself from the Professor is to kill him.

If you can present an argument that shows we have to kill convicts in this country, I would be open to it. But it has to be persuasive. I'm not going to accept it just because I want to accept it.
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