Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
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19-08-2016, 11:47 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
Blowjob's conveniently leaving out that such prosecutions are enacted when someone causes the death of a fetus when the mother wishes to have a baby. Likewise, when she wishes to have an abortion, she may do so.

The meaning of the law is clear: the mother, and she alone, determines the status and protections afforded to the fetus. The law simply spells out a means of prosecuting someone who takes that choice away from her.

Get it now?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-08-2016, 12:18 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(19-08-2016 08:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Heywood,

I don’t agree with your views on when a fetus takes on the title of human. The emotionally driven pleas you have presented have failed to convince anyone to adopt your perspective and you will continue to fail in your efforts because your tactics have already proven to be ineffective and you cannot seem to adapt and try new angles.

I do not view personhood as beginning until a fetus is actually free from the mother’s body. I also do not accept that life begins at conception. Your feelings on the subject are irrelevant and frankly, even if you provided me with a new definition of when life begins, I would still believe that abortion should be legal.

Let me repeat myself: I support abortion. I will not change my mind regardless of your personal feelings because the things you have been saying do not “speak” to me. Furthermore, the law is on my side so what you say bears no impact on my ability to have an abortion. Your opinion of the law and what I believe bears no weight on anything that affects me.

Well my position isn't based on emotions. Yours is. I have provided independent links that support my position and you guys haven't even questioned them. Instead you blindly and emotionally assert a contradictory position

I know full well the law is on your side. The law was on the side of slave owners too. And those slave owners didn't loose a wink of sleep because in their hearts they truly believed negros were sub-human.

The law was also on the side of scalpers who killed Native Americans and sold their scalps. Do you think any of those lost any sleep? Probably not because in their heart they believed Indians were sub-human savages.

The law can be on your side, and you can feel you are not doing anything wrong just as many evil doers in the past have done. If you are wrong you are supporting the wholesale genocide of millions of humans.

Sleep well.
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20-08-2016, 05:53 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2016 06:03 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
Dude, you brought up the law.

We simply pointed out to you that your attempt to twist it into something it does not say was bunkum.

Don't get mad at us for it.

And... I think the "slave owners" argument is a corollary to Godwin's Law.

Edit to Add: I'm trying to be nice, here. I know you're accustomed to being the smartest guy in the room, the "big fish in a small pond" intellectually, so to speak. But you're in a much bigger lake, now. I don't think you're any less intelligent than some of our high-IQ members, but you seem to think you're brighter. One of the benefits of letting go of the idea that you must be the sole originator of good ideas, and accepting that others' input can (and must) be considered as if you had come up with it to mull over, is that you can be honest when your own ideas are shown to be based on an emotional plea rather than a solid basis of logic. So you consider a fetus to be a full human being with attendant rights. Okay, we get it. And we have shown you why that doesn't matter, when it comes to the principle of bodily integrity for the host (or any other form of life support by using another's body), and why the law must read the way it does. And yet, all you seem to be coming back to, time and again, is your "but it's a baaaaaaaaaby, so you're all killers!" position, which is an emotional plea, even if we were to grant (and again, I do not) your original premise. When you stepped over the line into effectively calling us the moral equivalent of slave owners (when ironically, I've already explained to you why denying women the right to bodily integrity is a form of legalized slavery, using your own ship-AI metaphor), your position lost any merit you might have gained in trying to get us to see fetuses the way you do.

Perhaps it's time to step back, take a breath, and reconsider your entire approach to online discussions. Seriously, man.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-08-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(20-08-2016 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Well my position isn't based on emotions.

You are a liar. Your entire posting style is based on manipulating emotions.

You have called people morons and retarded.

You have equated abortion with genocide, Nazism, and slavery.

You have consistently called abortion murder.

You have made reference to mother's killing children, mother's killing babies, and other inflammatory language.

You have misrepresented the laws and the intent behind them.

You have ignored legitimate, reasoned responses to your posts, then lied and said no one answered you.

You have ignored linked responses and said that no one refuted you with citations.

You have misstated and/or redefined scientific, legal and philosophical terms to suit your argument.

(20-08-2016 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have provided independent links that support my position and you guys haven't even questioned them.

That's another lie. Girlyman in particular, posted a link to searches.

(20-08-2016 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Instead you blindly and emotionally assert a contradictory position

Yet another lie. There have been numerous posts that have been well thought out and well reasoned. None of them were your posts, which means you are projecting your fallacies onto the opposition.

(20-08-2016 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The law can be on your side, and you can feel you are not doing anything wrong just as many evil doers in the past have done. If you are wrong you are supporting the wholesale genocide of millions of humans.

That would be an emotional appeal, wouldn't it?

As someone already pointed out, the Catholic church defines sperm cells and egg cells as "human beings".

Masturbation/handjobs? Mass Murder.
Sex with contraceptives? Mass murder.
Any sexual act other than vaginal intercourse? Mass Murder.
Oral sex? Mass Murder with cannibalism. (Hmm. About your username...)

And all that stupidity makes about as much sense as the drivel you are posting.

(20-08-2016 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Sleep well.

Hypocrite.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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20-08-2016, 06:40 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 04:54 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Actually yes, before a certain age where we can deem a baby to be conscious. But humans are squeamish and we're not sure quite when a baby becomes conscious.

Viability may be a better measure than consciousness. Who, after all, remembers being in the womb? (Actually, the late author Ray Bradbury always insisted he recalled being thrust from comfort into the bright, jarring hell of the world when he was born, but one suspects that was — no surprise from a man with his remarkable and romantic imagination — ascription after the fact.)

Some pro-life types like to talk about fetal pain. But if the issue is one of pain and consciousness, then how can we justify the monstrous cruelty visited upon demonstrably conscious creatures — pigs, for instance; some 99 percent of "pork" is raised in brutal factory farms in the U.S. — that are far more aware and intelligent than any fetus could possibly be?

To me, the abortion question — beyond viability, at least — is strictly one of religious belief, and therefore should lie beyond the reach of meddling lawmakers and judges. People who fret about the "pain" and alleged consciousness of developing fetuses, while at the same time completely ignoring the pain visited upon conscious animals, do so only because of their belief in a "soul."

An aside re cruel agricultural practices (from a former cowboy and ag-school graduate): Here's the hierarchy of cruelty in terms of how meat animals are raised in the U.S., worst first:

Hogs — 99 percent raised in "specific pathogen free" environments, i.e. they never see the sun (literally) and breeding females are enclosed so that they cannot even turn around; fed antibiotics to reduce infection inherent in such conditions.

Veal (typically male dairy calves) — typically chained or crated for their entire lives.

Poultry — the vast percentage are raised in crowded cages inside sheds, fed antibiotics to reduce the infection that is inherent in such conditions.

Dairy cattle — confined in barns part-time for milking, but raised on pasture.

Sheep and cattle — raised almost exclusively on pasture, until the end of their lives when most are sent to "feedlots," which are large, outdoor, communal feeding pens.

Tomatoes — kidding....

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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20-08-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
.........

#sigh
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20-08-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
:dodgy:hardwoods links are crap and yes his whole case is based on emotional language not reasonable language.

There is no means of objectivity demonstrating a fetus has a soul and lots of religions proclaim things that are not legally recognized as having souls have souls or should be declared legal persons. And even in your own religion this is not settled as pointed out Catholics say sperm is a human being prove them wrong.

As for the brain it's more then significant to determine conscience by hemisphere and development theists are free to chest thump on this fact all day we have a presentable standard you don't.

As for fetus pain the sheer hypocrisy of whining about fetus pain while being fine with the massive amount of needless suffering that a Zika child will endure is awe inspiring. The amount of suffering they will suffer in poverty is just awful (but hey hardwoods fine with mass human suffering).

Oh and on a side note did hardwood say we don't feel like were doing something wrong but are. Huh i thought hardwoods position was if one doesn't feel like something or consider themselves something there not and it's just a technicality .

As usual Hardwood has nothing but no doubt he will keep rambling on anyway repeating point already covered. Use the same inflammatory language as if we said nothing at all.

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20-08-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
Hardwoods links are crap and yes his whole case is based on emotional language not reasonable language.

There is no means of objectivity demonstrating a fetus has a soul and lots of religions proclaim things that are not legally recognized as having souls have souls or should be declared legal persons. And even in your own religion this is not settled as pointed out Catholics say sperm is a human being prove them wrong.

As for the brain it's more then significant to determine conscience by hemisphere and development theists are free to chest thump on this fact all day we have a presentable standard you don't.

As for fetus pain the sheer hypocrisy of whining about fetus pain while being fine with the massive amount of needless suffering that a Zika child will endure is awe inspiring. The amount of suffering they will suffer in poverty is just awful (but hey hardwoods fine with mass human suffering).

Oh and on a side note did hardwood say we don't feel like were doing something wrong but are. Huh i thought hardwoods position was if one doesn't feel like something or consider themselves something there not and it's just a technicality .

Which draws us to claim of being wrong. If your wrong then your responsible for the needles and tangible suffering and poverty and death of millions of children due to the belief in invisible magic ghosts living in us. If i'm wrong my error is merely due the intangibility of the counter evidence.

As usual Hardwood has nothing but no doubt he will keep rambling on anyway repeating point already covered. Use the same inflammatory language as if we said nothing at all.

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20-08-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
I would comment but I've gotta go and get my slaves in from the cotton fields and then I have a Nazi party meeting this evening Tongue
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20-08-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(20-08-2016 05:55 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  As for fetus pain the sheer hypocrisy of whining about fetus pain while being fine with the massive amount of needless suffering that a Zika child will endure is awe inspiring. The amount of suffering they will suffer in poverty is just awful .

That. Blowhard is totally devoid of empathy.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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