Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
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22-08-2016, 11:23 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2016 11:31 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 03:58 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Which I should not have to defend as it is a commonly accepted a human zygote is an organism unto itself and that it is of the species homo sapiens sapiens therefore it is most certainly a human being.

Except of course that is not what you said at all.

"A zygote is an individual self developing organism of the species homo sapien sapien. It is therefore a human being." No mention of "human" zygotes at all from which one can infer that you had no clue that a zygote doesn't have to be human until it was pointed out to you. Not great for your credibility on the matter.

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22-08-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 11:08 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 01:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I am okay with abortions in case of say an ectopic pregnancy and perhaps in the case of preeclampsia.

Your argument, that there is no solid right or wrong choice, can be applied to adult human beings as well. Sometimes it is okay to kill and adult human being and sometimes it isn't. So lets make it an individual decision instead of a societal one. Of course that is silly. You realize it is silly in the case of adults. The reason you do not believe it is silly in the case of the unborn is because you feel the unborn are not worthy of moral protection. All you are really doing is try to obfuscate the fact that your morality is based on what you feel and not any actual axioms.

In the case of an adult human being killing another adult human being we don't make it a individual one but rather a societal one because most of time when an adult kills another adult, it is for the wrong reasons. Most abortions happen as a matter of convenience and not for a good reason.....like an ectopic pregnancy where the only option is to abort.

Last, I know two women who were forced by their fathers to get abortions when they became pregnant as teenagers.....so it is not always the woman's choice.

All of the people agree that once a fetus is born, it’s a human worthy of protection. (I’m not looking that up, and we can squabble about it if you find contradictory information). Only some of the people think that status should be conferred onto a fetus, an embryo or a blastocyst. I can respect that you view a fetus as a person, but I don’t agree with you. How I form my view is not a subject for debate. You can like it, or you can choose not to like it.

The law, as it’s written, protects both of our views, but you are trying to change my position. I am not under any threat of losing my rights, so the onus is on you to change my view, not on me to cave in to social pressure. I don’t think it’s immoral to abort a fetus and I also don’t particularly care that you think it is immoral. Your view doesn’t impact me and your opinion of me isn’t highly regarded (nor is anyone else's... it's nothing personal). That’s a stance you must understand and address to be successful.

If your goal is to curtail or stop future abortions from happening, I would recommend finding out from pro-choice people what you can say or do that might motivate them to carry their fetuses to term. (Protip: people are motivated by having their wants and needs met.) Shaming people or telling them they’re immoral or somehow at fault for finding themselves with an unwanted pregnancy has limited efficacy. Anyone who has strong opinions or feels confident in their own morality or decision making skills will be unmoved by this argument.

Regarding cases where teenagers are forced to have abortions against their will, I absolutely feel that their rights should be protected. I just don't believe that my rights should have to be forfeited to do that. I think there's probably another solution which can protect all parties (again, a fetus is not a party in my view).

as always you put things more elegantly then i ever could Thumbsup

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22-08-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
Still waiting for the answer Heywood can't seem to give...when does a person 'have to kill' someone.

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22-08-2016, 12:17 PM
Sad RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 11:23 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 03:58 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Which I should not have to defend as it is a commonly accepted a human zygote is an organism unto itself and that it is of the species homo sapiens sapiens therefore it is most certainly a human being.

Except of course that is not what you said at all.

"A zygote is an individual self developing organism of the species homo sapien sapien. It is therefore a human being." No mention of "human" zygotes at all from which one can infer that you had no clue that a zygote doesn't have to be human until it was pointed out to you. Not great for your credibility on the matter.

Even granting morning-woods derp this it changes nothing it's not self developing it's drawing resources from the mother and is TOTALLY dependent on her bodily resources. As for developing he keenly admits its merely an organism no different then a digestive parasite which still has more biological antomoy then a zygote. As for it having human DNA again so does a tumor or a sperm cell and it's just a dependent on the host to survive. As for the idea it will someday be a child irrelevant were considering the here and now not some maybe and for now it's not it's a mindless clump of cells no different then mass of skin cells i just scratched from behind my ear.Is that cold and emotionless enough for you morning-wood biology is not on his side

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22-08-2016, 12:18 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 12:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Still waiting for the answer Heywood can't seem to give...when does a person 'have to kill' someone.

never a person can always choose to die Jesus did

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22-08-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 12:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Still waiting for the answer Heywood can't seem to give...when does a person 'have to kill' someone.

OMG, Anjele! Have you heard about abortion?

It's so fucking awesome! It gives you the best high of your life and absolutely everyone is doing it.

Here's what you do. You allow yourself to get knocked up. Prick a few holes in your BF's condom or tell him that you ovulated 2 weeks ago, so you can't possibly get pregnant; whatever, as long as he does the deed with as little protection as possible. When you get a positive pregnancy test, wait as long as you can before having the abortion. I'd recommend doing it before you get all fat and crap, but the longer you hold out, the better the high.

Then go into one of those free abortion clinics and act all weepy like you're so scared about your future or some bullshit like that and they'll give you the abortion. Just like that! No more paying for drugs! The high is amazing. It's even better than heroin.
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22-08-2016, 12:25 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 12:18 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 12:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Still waiting for the answer Heywood can't seem to give...when does a person 'have to kill' someone.

never a person can always choose to die Jesus did

WELL PLAYED, ORDO! Well played. Laugh out load
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22-08-2016, 12:25 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 01:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  .

Your argument, that there is no solid right or wrong choice, can be applied to adult human beings as well. Sometimes it is okay to kill and adult human being and sometimes it isn't. So lets make it an individual decision instead of a societal one.

If you show up in my house uninvited and it scares me, I'm gonna shoot you dead if I can.

If I am pregnant and the foetus has Zika, I'm going to abort.

Both are my individual decision. In the first case, I am doing it to save myself. In the second case, I am doing it to prevent the suffering of another.

In both cases I feel morally justified, and thank dog the law agrees with me.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-08-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 12:25 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 12:18 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  never a person can always choose to die Jesus did

WELL PLAYED, ORDO! Well played. Laugh out load


Thank youThumbsup

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22-08-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(22-08-2016 12:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 12:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Still waiting for the answer Heywood can't seem to give...when does a person 'have to kill' someone.

OMG, Anjele! Have you heard about abortion?

It's so fucking awesome! It gives you the best high of your life and absolutely everyone is doing it.

Here's what you do. You allow yourself to get knocked up. Prick a few holes in your BF's condom or tell him that you ovulated 2 weeks ago, so you can't possibly get pregnant; whatever, as long as he does the deed with as little protection as possible. When you get a positive pregnancy test, wait as long as you can before having the abortion. I'd recommend doing it before you get all fat and crap, but the longer you hold out, the better the high.

Then go into one of those free abortion clinics and act all weepy like you're so scared about your future or some bullshit like that and they'll give you the abortion. Just like that! No more paying for drugs! The high is amazing. It's even better than heroin.

Big Grin

this is how envision the mindset of every anti choice nut

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