Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
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08-08-2016, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2016 02:03 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 01:26 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  You are just being a demagogue by attempting to conflate arguments for abortion rights with birth defects. Birth defects have nothing to do with whether or not a woman should have the right to kill her unborn child. So please stop pretending they do.


We know that around 30 - 50 % of these "babies" are "killed" by Jebus, (30 - 50% of pregnancies spontaneously abort).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage
Such intelligent design.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-08-2016, 02:01 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 12:52 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-08-2016 03:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Sure, let's not think about the kind of 'life' the child could have.

What an ass.

If a birth defect alone is enough to justify killing an unborn child wouldn't it also be enough to justify killing a child that was born with a defect?

You see in your mind(it seems to me anyways) that you don't care that the unborn child has a birth defect...the fact it is unborn is enough to justify allowing the mother kill to it. Rubio takes a different perspective. He doesn't accept your premise that just because the child is unborn that justifies allowing the mother to kill it.

Should mothers be allowed to kill offspring that have birth defects? Rubio thinks not and what exactly is wrong with that?

You are just being a demagogue by attempting to conflate arguments for abortion rights with birth defects. Birth defects have nothing to do with whether or not a woman should have the right to kill her unborn child. So please stop pretending they do.

Let’s put Rubio’s stance against abortions for a fetus with microcephaly with his other political stances shall we?

"In 2014, in an effort to derail the Affordable Care Act, Marco Rubio supported a provision to prevent the Department of Health and Human Services from tapping into other accounts to fund the risk corridors program. The result was several small insurers went out of business and others pulled out of the health care exchanges altogether.”
http://www.biography.com/people/marco-ru...cal-career

In short Rubio is against the abortion of a fetus with microcephaly but champions gutting the ACA and driving insurance companies out of business, the same companies that insure clients with pre-existing conditions.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/01/22...are-issue/

Unfortunately Rubio’s stance is in line with the cross-carrying wing of the GOP, they are all for the unborn until they come into this world, at that point they all say fuck ‘em, if the parent’s can’t take care of them they shouldn’t have had them in the first place.

How noble, how Christian-like.

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08-08-2016, 02:08 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
Furthermore this Christian-wing is the very same one that wants to defund and shut down Planned Parenthood because it is more important to stop all abortions than to continue all the other 97% of the services it provides.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/...rvices.pdf

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-08-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 01:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 01:26 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  You are just being a demagogue by attempting to conflate arguments for abortion rights with birth defects. Birth defects have nothing to do with whether or not a woman should have the right to kill her unborn child. So please stop pretending they do.


We know that around 30 - 50 % of these "babies" are "killed" by Jebus, (30 - 50% of pregnancies spontaneously abort).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage
Such intelligent design.

Yes, and spontaneous abortions often happen when the women doesn't even know she's pregnant. It appears that god is the biggest abortionist in the history of humanity. Hummmm.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-08-2016, 03:26 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 02:26 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 01:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We know that around 30 - 50 % of these "babies" are "killed" by Jebus, (30 - 50% of pregnancies spontaneously abort).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage
Such intelligent design.

Yes, and spontaneous abortions often happen when the women doesn't even know she's pregnant. It appears that god is the biggest abortionist in the history of humanity. Hummmm.

Does the fetus go to hell for committing suicide?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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08-08-2016, 03:34 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 03:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 02:26 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yes, and spontaneous abortions often happen when the women doesn't even know she's pregnant. It appears that god is the biggest abortionist in the history of humanity. Hummmm.

Does the fetus go to hell for committing suicide?

Probably Purgatory, until ALL their sins get warshed.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-08-2016, 08:41 PM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 12:47 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 06:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  As usual you can't look at the issue at hand. You have to reach, and reach, and stretch as far out as you can to see how far you can push an issue.

No one has suggested killing babies born with defects. Microcephaly has no cure, no fix, no hope of getting better. It's not like a fetus that has a cleft palate or a club foot, both of which can be repaired. This defect is a stunting of the brain that is never going to allow the child to have any kind of life other than one of continuous care with no improvement. What sort of life is that for the child?

I agree with every word you said. And, I agree with you on abortion generally.

That said, I have a question: what about kids that ARE born with Microcephaly? And, I think this was sort of HJ's point. So, you now have a baby who has serious health issues, no chance of improvement, a short, miserable life span, and parents (or parent) who can go bankrupt dealing with this.

So, now what?

Btw, this question is not directed at Ang and I have no idea what the answer is.

As I see it, once a child is born and is no longer physically hooked up to it's life support system (the mother) killing it would of course be murder. And murder of children like that does happen. We had the body of a young boy found near the town where I live about a year ago. He had been left out in the country to die by his grandmother. The mother had given up and left the boy with the grandmother who apparently could no longer cope with his care. He had multiple health issues and was in a wheelchair.

Hell, healthy kids are murdered by parents either directly or through years of neglect and abuse, not to mention the ones murdered because god told their parent to do so. So we really can't just look at parents of children with health issues.

There are also people who take in kids with disabilities whose parents can't handle it. But there aren't enough of them to go around.

Some people think they can handle it when they find out that their child is facing severe health and/or cognitive issues. Some can...some try and find out later that they can't.

With macrocephaly you aren't looking at a child that has any chance at anything near a normal life. This is extremely an extremely severe affliction. Caring for a child with certain abnormalities (for want of a better word) who can enjoy part of life and even thrive (I am thinking of deafness or Down's syndrome as examples) is completely different from a child who is basically a bunch of involuntary muscles functioning with little or no cognizance.

I have told the story before of a young woman who grew up in our old neighborhood and was friends with two of my kids. Her son was shown to have a severe cleft palate during ultrasound scans. She and her husband opted to have him. When he was born his cleft was much worse than expected and he was missing at least part of all four limbs due to amniotic band syndrome...I have no idea why that wasn't revealed to them. She and her extended family have stepped up and have raised this boy and done a damn fine job of it. He appears happy and smart. But he has gone through more surgeries in his short life than all the people on this forum combined...not to mention there are more to come. My hat is off to them. As for financial...they are on assistance. There is no other way to not only cover all those costs but also to provide the care he requires and the prosthesis that have to constantly be changed as he grows.

That was their decision. Not everyone has what it takes to do what they are doing and have done.

As to your question...again, after the fetus is a child and no longer connected to the mother via the umbilical cord and it has taken breaths...ending it's life would be murder, even if it would be a mercy.

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09-08-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
Baby with macrocephaly from the Zika virus dies in Houston.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/baby-wi...li=BBnb7Kz

Zika-related brain damage in fetuses "is one of the saddest congenital birth outcomes imaginable," said Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. "The case highlights that ZIka is not just producing babies with small heads. . . .We should expect many similar deaths, and also stillbirths."

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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10-08-2016, 01:40 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 06:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I have to assume that you are also against taking a person off life support when there is no hope of them recovering or when the brain activity has ceased. We can keep bodies pumping for a long time with machinery but does that constitute life?

There is a difference between taking someone off life support and actively killing them.

You were critical of Rubio because he is against abortion even in cases of babies with birth defects. You called him an ass for being against abortion even in cases when the child is likely to suffer from a birth defect. Why should birth defects matter at all unless you believe they are a reason to kill another human being.

Now if you accept the premise that a birth defect is a valid reason to kill a human being, why does it matter if that human being is in or out of the womb?

Your position is inconsistent and not well thought out. Mathilda and Dancesfortwo take the Nazi position that a birth defect can be a reason to kill a child outside the womb. I certainly do not agree with that, but at least they are being consistent on the matter. You are trying to have it both ways because your moral code is governed by your whims instead of axioms.
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10-08-2016, 01:44 AM
RE: Marco Rubio...no abortions for Zika infected pregnant women.
(08-08-2016 04:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am not going to applaud consistent error.

He is the bad guy for putting the rights of something that is not a human being (a foetus) above the rights of a human (the woman).

You continue to equivocate 'baby' and 'foetus'. They are not the same thing.

You lack a basic understanding of biology and therefore it is simply impossible to argue this issue with you.

A fetus is a human being. THat is a fact and it is only disputed by morons like you.
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