Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
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02-12-2015, 02:45 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  PS.

You either lie or cannot read. For example, I've answered this query TWICE now:

47. I asked

"Do you think it impossible for a charlatan to write a few nice paragraphs?"

NO RESPONSE


Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

You either lie or cannot read or were inebriated when you went back to re-re-re-read my post. Try again.

1 Corinthians 13 is considered almost universally the supreme example of agape, self-sacrificing, true LOVE. No. I know YOU cannot write to me in love, and know you therefore for a charlatan.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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02-12-2015, 02:53 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  PS.

You either lie or cannot read. For example, I've answered this query TWICE now:

47. I asked

"Do you think it impossible for a charlatan to write a few nice paragraphs?"

NO RESPONSE

Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

Mark,

1. That was the first one I noticed and I'm not sure what either you or I would have learned if I went back, and say, explained where I answered you in say 40 of 50 instances. Certainly it is a debater's prerogative to ignore some lines of query, particularly when you most frequently ask me questions that are far removed from this, YOUR debate proposition.

2. Tell me the conditions for ending the debate. You are tiresome and it MIGHT be worth it for you to say for the next months and years "you won" when clearly you are seeking a pyrrhic victory, not a logical, moral or intellectual one. Don't you know I have everything in Christ and you have nothing without him?

3. Do you also not realize that if Paul WAS a charlatan, that the bulk of peer-reviewed literature, modern and ancient, recognizes him as a sheer genius, a master expositor, the most successful church planter in history? And why was he a charlatan? You NEVER have yet answered me why your Roman conspirator was beaten "times without number" by Romans and languished in Roman prisons? Pray tell!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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02-12-2015, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 02-12-2015 08:54 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(02-12-2015 02:45 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

You either lie or cannot read or were inebriated when you went back to re-re-re-read my post. Try again.

1 Corinthians 13 is considered almost universally the supreme example of agape, self-sacrificing, true LOVE. No. I know YOU cannot write to me in love, and know you therefore for a charlatan.

Hi Q.

I'm a big Bob Dylan fan.

Here are the lyrics of a song he wrote in the early 70's for his wife, Sara...

" "Wedding Song"

I love you more than ever, more than time and more than love
I love you more than money and more than the stars above
I love you more than madness, more than waves upon the sea
I love you more than life itself, you mean that much to me.

Ever since you walked right in the circle's been complete
I've said goodbye to haunted rooms and faces in the street
In the courtyard of the jester which is hidden from the sun
I love you more than ever and I haven't yet begun.

You breathed on me and made my life a richer one to live
When I was deep in powerty you taught me how to give
Dried the tears up from my dreams and pulled me from the hole
I love you more than ever and it binds me to this all.

You gave me babies, one, two, three, what is more, you saved my life
Eye for eye and tooth for tooth, your love cuts like a knife
My thoughts of you don't ever rest, they'd kill me if I lie
But I'd sacrifice the world for you and watch my senses die.

The tune that is yours and mine to play upon this earth
We'll play it out the best we know, whatever it is worth
What's lost is lost, we can't regain what went down in the flood
But happiness to me is you and I love you more than blood.

It's never been my duty to remake the world at large
Nor is it my intention to sound a battle charge
'Cause I love you more than all of that with a love that doesn't bend
And if there is eternity I'd love you there again.

Oh, can't you see that you were born to stand by my side
And I was born to be with you, you were born to be my bride
You're the other half of what I am, you're the missing piece
And I love you more than ever with that love that doesn't cease.

You turn the tide on me each day and teach my eyes to see
Just being next to you is a natural thing for me
And I could never let you go, no matter what goes on
'Cause I love you more than ever now that the past is gone "


I think most people would agree it's rather beautiful poetry.

About one year after he wrote this he was divorced from Sara.

Beautiful words are just beautiful words. Anyone can write them, a point that you seemingly fail to appreciate or acknowledge. You claim

"I think it impossible for the vile person you depict to write what is widely acknowledged as the greatest treatise on love, ever"

This is non sensical. Paul wrote a few beautiful paragraphs... I say that was only one side of Paul's passive aggressive personality. Elsewhere he was narcissistic, controlling, arrogant and he lied. Paul was a charlatan.

PS Bob Dylan is a much better author and philosopher, and a nicer person in real life, than Saint Paul ever was.
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03-12-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
You claim I ducked 50 questions yet I've asked you one question over a dozen times on this debate and prior to this debate without one answer from you or from BB or from anyone at TTA, even one time:

Why did Paul, whom you claim to be a charlatan and Roman conspirator, get beaten many times by Romans and spend most of his ministry days in Roman prisons around the Empire?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-12-2015, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 02:13 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(03-12-2015 09:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You claim I ducked 50 questions yet I've asked you one question over a dozen times on this debate and prior to this debate without one answer from you or from BB or from anyone at TTA, even one time:

Why did Paul, whom you claim to be a charlatan and Roman conspirator, get beaten many times by Romans and spend most of his ministry days in Roman prisons around the Empire?

I will answer your question (again)

Firstly, though, you must back up your claims.

1. Provide evidence Paul was "beaten many times by Romans"

2. Provide evidence Paul "spend most of his ministry days in Roman prisons around the Empire?"

If you really have to you may quote the book of Acts, yet we all know it is an unreliable source.
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04-12-2015, 03:35 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 09:33 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(02-12-2015 02:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

Mark,

1. That was the first one I noticed and I'm not sure what either you or I would have learned if I went back, and say, explained where I answered you in say 40 of 50 instances. Certainly it is a debater's prerogative to ignore some lines of query, particularly when you most frequently ask me questions that are far removed from this, YOUR debate proposition.

2. Tell me the conditions for ending the debate. You are tiresome and it MIGHT be worth it for you to say for the next months and years "you won" when clearly you are seeking a pyrrhic victory, not a logical, moral or intellectual one. Don't you know I have everything in Christ and you have nothing without him?

3. Do you also not realize that if Paul WAS a charlatan, that the bulk of peer-reviewed literature, modern and ancient, recognizes him as a sheer genius, a master expositor, the most successful church planter in history? And why was he a charlatan? You NEVER have yet answered me why your Roman conspirator was beaten "times without number" by Romans and languished in Roman prisons? Pray tell!

Don't you know I have everything in Christ and you have nothing without him?

Christ heh? What if I choose Allah?

"Allah subḥānahu wa ta'āla (glorified and exalted be He) had a plan for you before you were born, and He still has a plan for you. Allah's plan for you is necessary and glorious. His plan is vital to your success and important to the world.

Allah's plan is not set in stone, as if we were robots pre-programmed in the factory. That would strip us of free will and deny our natures. Rather, I believe that Allah has a flexible plan for each human being: a plan that allows that person to benefit the world with his/her unique talents.

This is in fact the Islamic view of al-Qadar, or predestination. There is no doubt that Allah has decreed everything that happens in the universe from the beginning of time to the end, and that Allah has written it all in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz (the Book of Decrees)."

Or Krishna?

"So a devotee is one, a devotee is he who is simply dependent upon Krishna and who does everything for the sake of Krishna’s pleasure, and he is completely controlled by Krishna, completely controlled by Krishna. And as a result of that he is always blissful. He is never morose. He is never in anxiety. Spiritual sky means Vaikuntha, no anxiety. Why no anxiety? Because Krishna is in control. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is the Supreme Controller. He is the Supreme Proprietor and He is omniscient – He knows everything. So He is the most powerful, He is the Supreme Proprietor, He is the most capable, so He will do everything and I am simply serving as His subordinate."

Or Kim Jong-un?

Or Adolf Hitler?

Or, perhaps, Saint Paul?

"Take me for your model, as I take Christ..."

If I have a need to stop thinking for myself, to become a sheep, I can choose any one of hundreds of gurus to believe in or follow. Why Christ?
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04-12-2015, 03:46 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 09:46 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(02-12-2015 02:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

Mark,

1. That was the first one I noticed and I'm not sure what either you or I would have learned if I went back, and say, explained where I answered you in say 40 of 50 instances. Certainly it is a debater's prerogative to ignore some lines of query, particularly when you most frequently ask me questions that are far removed from this, YOUR debate proposition.

2. Tell me the conditions for ending the debate. You are tiresome and it MIGHT be worth it for you to say for the next months and years "you won" when clearly you are seeking a pyrrhic victory, not a logical, moral or intellectual one. Don't you know I have everything in Christ and you have nothing without him?

3. Do you also not realize that if Paul WAS a charlatan, that the bulk of peer-reviewed literature, modern and ancient, recognizes him as a sheer genius, a master expositor, the most successful church planter in history? And why was he a charlatan? You NEVER have yet answered me why your Roman conspirator was beaten "times without number" by Romans and languished in Roman prisons? Pray tell!

"when clearly you are seeking a pyrrhic victory, not a logical, moral or intellectual one."

Mmmmm.
I think the irony of you claiming this will not be lost on anyone who values logical, moral and intellectual argument.

You have not put forward a single logical idea in this debate. There is nothing intellectual about parroting the assumptions you have learned in church. As to morality...to even suggest that Paul promoted healthy moral ideas is plainly wrong for all the reasons already made clear.

You loud mouth Christians always erroneously claim you are "moral." I say you are evil, sick, deluded, power hungry and greedy. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

pyrrhic 1 |ˈpɪrɪk|
adjective
(of a victory) won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor.

Nice word!

Please explain what I have lost in defeating you.

I'm not particularly concerned about your loss of reputation and integrity...they barely existed beforehand, so there has been no cost to me.
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04-12-2015, 04:47 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 09:31 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(02-12-2015 02:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

Mark,

1. That was the first one I noticed and I'm not sure what either you or I would have learned if I went back, and say, explained where I answered you in say 40 of 50 instances. Certainly it is a debater's prerogative to ignore some lines of query, particularly when you most frequently ask me questions that are far removed from this, YOUR debate proposition.

2. Tell me the conditions for ending the debate. You are tiresome and it MIGHT be worth it for you to say for the next months and years "you won" when clearly you are seeking a pyrrhic victory, not a logical, moral or intellectual one. Don't you know I have everything in Christ and you have nothing without him?

3. Do you also not realize that if Paul WAS a charlatan, that the bulk of peer-reviewed literature, modern and ancient, recognizes him as a sheer genius, a master expositor, the most successful church planter in history? And why was he a charlatan? You NEVER have yet answered me why your Roman conspirator was beaten "times without number" by Romans and languished in Roman prisons? Pray tell!

"the bulk of peer-reviewed literature, modern and ancient, recognizes him as a sheer genius, a master expositor"

No. You have read too many fundie magazines, and spent too much time in church. I have shown why Paul was not this, in some depth, and you have yet to counter my arguments. All you have done so far is parrot your biased assumptions, without evidence. If you think Paul was a genius, tell us why.

Please also explain why, even if he was a genius, that means he was telling the truth.
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04-12-2015, 08:50 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 11:44 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(02-12-2015 02:45 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

You either lie or cannot read or were inebriated when you went back to re-re-re-read my post. Try again.

1 Corinthians 13 is considered almost universally the supreme example of agape, self-sacrificing, true LOVE. No. I know YOU cannot write to me in love, and know you therefore for a charlatan.

"1 Corinthians 13 is considered almost universally the supreme example of agape, self-sacrificing, true LOVE."

Nope. It's just a nice piece of prose. It's one of the few bits of the babble that can be read in public without squirming.
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04-12-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(02-12-2015 02:45 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ha ha! You found one out of 48 you think you did answer!

Great retort, you master debater! Facepalm

Yet you didn't actually answer the question. You just said it was a famous and beautiful piece of writing.

The fact remains it could have been written by a charlatan.Cool

You either lie or cannot read or were inebriated when you went back to re-re-re-read my post. Try again.

1 Corinthians 13 is considered almost universally the supreme example of agape, self-sacrificing, true LOVE. No. I know YOU cannot write to me in love, and know you therefore for a charlatan.

I know YOU cannot write to me in love, and know you therefore for a charlatan.

Don't worry precious, you won't be getting any love letters from me.

Oh, I'm the charlatan now? That's interesting. I don't suppose you will say why you think that, or what it has to do with Paul?
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