Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
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26-12-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
My opponent has disappeared.

I reckon he's in front of a mirror...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP_VfWK8OxE
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30-12-2015, 04:39 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
This is most definitely worth a listen for anyone interested in Paul...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWfOd-6pTNI
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12-01-2016, 02:03 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
Sorry, Mark, for the long "radio" silence. I was traveling out-of-state and caught that bad cold/fever that is going around and was ill for another week.

Let's focus if we can--can you respond to my question, "If you say Paul was a charlatan because he was a Roman conspirator, why was he a frequent guest in Roman jails and beaten multiple times by Roman authorities?"

Thank you.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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14-01-2016, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2016 03:59 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(12-01-2016 02:03 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sorry, Mark, for the long "radio" silence. I was traveling out-of-state and caught that bad cold/fever that is going around and was ill for another week.

Let's focus if we can--can you respond to my question, "If you say Paul was a charlatan because he was a Roman conspirator, why was he a frequent guest in Roman jails and beaten multiple times by Roman authorities?"

Thank you.

1. Paul may have spent a little time in Roman prisons, such as in Caesaria. This would've happened while it was being sorted out just who he was and what he was up to. The evidence that he spent any significant time in "Roman jails" is very dubious. Any time he spent in a Roman prison was, I say, for his own protection.

2. Paul was not beaten multiple times by Roman authorities. I have asked you twice, in posts 235 and 243, to provide evidence that he was. As usual, you have totally ignored my request. This avoidance of answering questions does not go unnoticed by anyone who is taking an active interest in this debate. Why can't you understand this very simple concept?

Let me put the shoes on your feet in an analogy. If I asked you to

"prove that Billy Graham is Jewish"

you would probably reply

"Well I don't think Billy Graham is Jewish...so you need to show me some evidence that he is...only then can I fashion any sort of answer!"

If I retorted one month later with

"I've had a cold, sorry, but you are yet to answer my question... why is Billy Graham Jewish?"

Would you not be rather bemused?
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19-01-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(14-01-2016 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 02:03 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sorry, Mark, for the long "radio" silence. I was traveling out-of-state and caught that bad cold/fever that is going around and was ill for another week.

Let's focus if we can--can you respond to my question, "If you say Paul was a charlatan because he was a Roman conspirator, why was he a frequent guest in Roman jails and beaten multiple times by Roman authorities?"

Thank you.

1. Paul may have spent a little time in Roman prisons, such as in Caesaria. This would've happened while it was being sorted out just who he was and what he was up to. The evidence that he spent any significant time in "Roman jails" is very dubious. Any time he spent in a Roman prison was, I say, for his own protection.

2. Paul was not beaten multiple times by Roman authorities. I have asked you twice, in posts 235 and 243, to provide evidence that he was. As usual, you have totally ignored my request. This avoidance of answering questions does not go unnoticed by anyone who is taking an active interest in this debate. Why can't you understand this very simple concept?

Let me put the shoes on your feet in an analogy. If I asked you to

"prove that Billy Graham is Jewish"

you would probably reply

"Well I don't think Billy Graham is Jewish...so you need to show me some evidence that he is...only then can I fashion any sort of answer!"

If I retorted one month later with

"I've had a cold, sorry, but you are yet to answer my question... why is Billy Graham Jewish?"

Would you not be rather bemused?

Begging your pardon, but before we move to extra-biblical sources--which sources you are constantly quoting despite being removed from the text by MILLENNIA, what are your sources that:

1. Paul claims to have been beaten many times, and in many epistles--but you claim contrary evidence... do you have anything contemporary or only speculation?

2. I have provided textual quotations as have you. Please provide your proof that every single verse I've quoted is either not Paul or Paul writing a lie, and your proof that every single verse you've quoted is Paul, and lying.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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19-01-2016, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 02:44 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(19-01-2016 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  1. Paul may have spent a little time in Roman prisons, such as in Caesaria. This would've happened while it was being sorted out just who he was and what he was up to. The evidence that he spent any significant time in "Roman jails" is very dubious. Any time he spent in a Roman prison was, I say, for his own protection.

2. Paul was not beaten multiple times by Roman authorities. I have asked you twice, in posts 235 and 243, to provide evidence that he was. As usual, you have totally ignored my request. This avoidance of answering questions does not go unnoticed by anyone who is taking an active interest in this debate. Why can't you understand this very simple concept?

Let me put the shoes on your feet in an analogy. If I asked you to

"prove that Billy Graham is Jewish"

you would probably reply

"Well I don't think Billy Graham is Jewish...so you need to show me some evidence that he is...only then can I fashion any sort of answer!"

If I retorted one month later with

"I've had a cold, sorry, but you are yet to answer my question... why is Billy Graham Jewish?"

Would you not be rather bemused?

Begging your pardon, but before we move to extra-biblical sources--which sources you are constantly quoting despite being removed from the text by MILLENNIA, what are your sources that:

1. Paul claims to have been beaten many times, and in many epistles--but you claim contrary evidence... do you have anything contemporary or only speculation?

2. I have provided textual quotations as have you. Please provide your proof that every single verse I've quoted is either not Paul or Paul writing a lie, and your proof that every single verse you've quoted is Paul, and lying.

Thanks.


Q, I have asked you repeatedly (posts 235,243,255) to provide evidence for your claim that Paul was beaten many times by Romans. I have been waiting since the 5th Dec 2015 for an answer. That's 46 days. You are a self proclaimed expert on Paul. Yet you can't back up your own assumptions. There is no evidence Paul was beaten by Romans.

So what?

Firstly... it aptly demonstrates more evidence that Paul was not working against the Roman government but that Paul and them were both on the same side i.e. they were trying to prevent discord with Jews.

Secondly... you are a typical example of how obstinate some Christians are. You don't understand the real history, and you are totally unwilling to even slightly question your own beliefs. Your dishonesty (for example changing "Paul was beaten by Romans" to "Paul claims to have been beaten many times" ) is very disconcerting, and doesn't go unnoticed. We both know Paul, or someone writing in his name, claimed he was beaten...but not by Romans. You would be a lot more popular and have much more credibility if you simply admitted some of your assumptions about Paul were incorrect.

Ultimately this forum is not here to make any individual look good or put down anyone... it is here so all of us can learn from each other. You seem totally incapable of learning. You demonstrate no evidence that you've read the passages I've quoted or looked at any of my links. Instead of helping our readers you are just holding back the discussion for those of us who are interested in learning about Paul... and the origins of Christianity.
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20-01-2016, 03:21 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 03:30 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
If Paul was beaten...this is why (see the quote below) ...he was promoting nonsense about a Christ...and Jews everywhere didn't buy the story and thought of Paul as an apostate, a traitor, a heretic, and an enemy of the true Israel. That is why he was bashed...by Jews

"Ephesians 2:11-22King James Version (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit"

Paul was trying to make gentiles more Jewish and Jews more like Romans. He was trying to blur the differences between two very different cultures. ("For he (Christ) is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us" ) Paul failed miserably, as he was just spouting his own made up shit, and the Jews knew it. They started a war against Rome in 66 CE.

Paul (the person) disappeared from the pages of history around this time, as his propaganda was a failure, so his services were no longer required.
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22-01-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(19-01-2016 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  1. Paul may have spent a little time in Roman prisons, such as in Caesaria. This would've happened while it was being sorted out just who he was and what he was up to. The evidence that he spent any significant time in "Roman jails" is very dubious. Any time he spent in a Roman prison was, I say, for his own protection.

2. Paul was not beaten multiple times by Roman authorities. I have asked you twice, in posts 235 and 243, to provide evidence that he was. As usual, you have totally ignored my request. This avoidance of answering questions does not go unnoticed by anyone who is taking an active interest in this debate. Why can't you understand this very simple concept?

Let me put the shoes on your feet in an analogy. If I asked you to

"prove that Billy Graham is Jewish"

you would probably reply

"Well I don't think Billy Graham is Jewish...so you need to show me some evidence that he is...only then can I fashion any sort of answer!"

If I retorted one month later with

"I've had a cold, sorry, but you are yet to answer my question... why is Billy Graham Jewish?"

Would you not be rather bemused?

Begging your pardon, but before we move to extra-biblical sources--which sources you are constantly quoting despite being removed from the text by MILLENNIA, what are your sources that:

1. Paul claims to have been beaten many times, and in many epistles--but you claim contrary evidence... do you have anything contemporary or only speculation?

2. I have provided textual quotations as have you. Please provide your proof that every single verse I've quoted is either not Paul or Paul writing a lie, and your proof that every single verse you've quoted is Paul, and lying.

Thanks.

"I have provided textual quotations as have you."

Ha ha. Stop pretending you have even engaged me in this so called debate. I've been waiting and hoping for you to trip me up...somewhere....anywhere....because I do like to learn, yet all you have produced is repetitive "noise."

Chances are you will take another week to answer this, and you'll ask me to explain why Paul was beaten by Romans.Facepalm
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23-01-2016, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2016 04:49 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
[attachment=3195]

I know this feeling
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25-01-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Mark Fulton vs Q..."Was Paul a Charlatan"
(19-01-2016 03:08 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Begging your pardon, but before we move to extra-biblical sources--which sources you are constantly quoting despite being removed from the text by MILLENNIA, what are your sources that:

1. Paul claims to have been beaten many times, and in many epistles--but you claim contrary evidence... do you have anything contemporary or only speculation?

2. I have provided textual quotations as have you. Please provide your proof that every single verse I've quoted is either not Paul or Paul writing a lie, and your proof that every single verse you've quoted is Paul, and lying.

Thanks.


Q, I have asked you repeatedly (posts 235,243,255) to provide evidence for your claim that Paul was beaten many times by Romans. I have been waiting since the 5th Dec 2015 for an answer. That's 46 days. You are a self proclaimed expert on Paul. Yet you can't back up your own assumptions. There is no evidence Paul was beaten by Romans.

So what?

Firstly... it aptly demonstrates more evidence that Paul was not working against the Roman government but that Paul and them were both on the same side i.e. they were trying to prevent discord with Jews.

Secondly... you are a typical example of how obstinate some Christians are. You don't understand the real history, and you are totally unwilling to even slightly question your own beliefs. Your dishonesty (for example changing "Paul was beaten by Romans" to "Paul claims to have been beaten many times" ) is very disconcerting, and doesn't go unnoticed. We both know Paul, or someone writing in his name, claimed he was beaten...but not by Romans. You would be a lot more popular and have much more credibility if you simply admitted some of your assumptions about Paul were incorrect.

Ultimately this forum is not here to make any individual look good or put down anyone... it is here so all of us can learn from each other. You seem totally incapable of learning. You demonstrate no evidence that you've read the passages I've quoted or looked at any of my links. Instead of helping our readers you are just holding back the discussion for those of us who are interested in learning about Paul... and the origins of Christianity.

I beg your pardon. I've offered Bible references that Paul was beaten and rather than offering any contemporary documentary or other evidence refuting the facts, you've merely stated, "Those verses are falsified" and when challenged, remained silent as to how it is that you "know" which verses were redacted, later insertions, pseudo-Paul, etc.

If, however, you insist that we need extra-biblical sources to confirm Bible statements of fact, not spirituality or miracles, such as "Paul was beaten", then kindly provide your CONTEMPORARY, extra-biblical sources PROVING:

*Paul was a Roman conspirator
*Paul was a charlatan

Or else leave the ring.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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