Mass shooting in Orlando
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13-06-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 09:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:19 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I am not sure , but are you trying to say that Christian and Islamic terrorism are comparable?

I think what I am trying to say is I don't see the need to qualify "terrorism". I think the Bundy brothers' and crazy coot father's armed occupation of federal lands also qualifies as terrorism. But I don't call it Mormon terrorism.

But why don't you call it Mormon terrorism, if it was inspired by Mormon ideology that's exactly what you should call it, a Mormon terrorism.
What is a problem with calling things what they are?


(13-06-2016 09:33 AM)I Am Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:19 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I am not sure , but are you trying to say that Christian and Islamic terrorism are comparable?

I wouldn't presume to speak for Girly. I will say that the textual justifications for violence exist in all the Abrahamic traditions, waiting for someone to shout them with charismatic fervor at a receptive audience.

Right now Islam is being used for violence more than Judaism or Christianity. Not too long ago, historically speaking, Christianity was prominent in justifying slavery and genocide. Judaism was used to promote a variety of bloodthirsty regional wars some centuries before that. Who knows what the faddish death cult will be in a hundred years or so?

I'm their current expression, Islam does seem to have a lead in body count. In their potential to inspire and justify murder as righteousness, they have all proven themselves one time or another.

"Not too long ago, historically speaking...." who cares, let's deal with the problem we have right now.

Don't you understand that pretending there is no problem, that finding excuses and burying your head in the sand is creating the "receptive audience" on the other side?
Raise of the right wing in Europe is a direct consequence of the left wing governments refusal to even recognize the problem, let alone deal with it.

Watch this video, and tell me, come next elections, who do you think these people will vote for.




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13-06-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 09:52 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:50 AM)Vosur Wrote:  [Image: NkJSBO.jpg]

So the fuck what! Yes religion played a roll, but lets not forget that the asshole bigots on the right use that same bible to deny LGBT rights.

You forgot about the gay hater in LA that was arrested yesterday before he could do the same thing. That sicko was white and not Muslim, and had way more weapons in his car.

Playing a fucking shell game.

"It's the Islamic terrorists"

But when the Va Tech shooter did it

"He was mentally ill"

The abortion clinic shooter based his violence on Christianity.

Dillon Roof was not a Muslim.

But regardless of motive, all of them got their hands on guns. This guy bought his gun LEGALLY! The Va Tech shooter also had no record at the time of buy.

YES religion was part of the motive. But that is also a problem with Christianity too. Those books teach tribalism, and we always hear followers of both say "I will die for what I believe". Well, when you are taught that kind of tribalism, and told you have a right to "defend" yourself, what do people desire to do that? Weapons.

So if you want to blame gun deaths on religion, be consistent, because it is that belief that you are entitled to both guns and religion, the result is the no rules climate we have now that has lead to our flooded market.

I am sick of this bullshit. You cant have it both ways. You cant rightfully say you want to keep guns out of the wrong hands then obstruct any and all attempts to change things.
The crucial difference is that the "asshole bigots on the right" don't walk into gay clubs to gun down a hundred gay people in the name of their God. They don't blow themselves up in crowded places, fly airplanes into buildings, stone rape victims, decapitate apostates or slaughter those who draw caricatures of their prophet either, for that matter. I don't blame gun deaths on religion, I blame religiously motivated massacres and violence on religion. The 100+ people who were directly affected by yesterday's events would be alive and well right now if it wasn't for the fact that Islam is a hateful ideology whose adherents are overwhelmingly bigoted against gay people. Your attempts at equating Christian with Islamic violence are absurdly far-fetched, especially when you compare the number of terrorist attacks committed by the two groups with the fact in mind that Muslims are a minority in the US.

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13-06-2016, 11:50 AM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 12:21 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 11:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  The crucial difference is that the "asshole bigots on the right" don't walk into gay clubs to gun down a hundred gay people in the name of their God.

Ain't buying it. Instead the Evangelical Christians just walk into Planned Parenthood clinics and start shooting as a "warrior for the babies." And my guess is that now that the "asshole bigots on the right" seen a massacre of gays they're thinking to themselves "Damn, that's a good idea. Why didn't I think of it?"

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13-06-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 11:50 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 11:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  The crucial difference is that the "asshole bigots on the right" don't walk into gay clubs to gun down a hundred gay people in the name of their God.

Ain't buying it. Instead the Evangelical Christians just walk into Planned Parenthood clinics and start shooting as a "warrior for the babies." And my guess is that now that the "asshole bigots on the right" seen a massacre of gays they're thinking to themselves "Damn, that's a good idea. Why didn't I think of it?"

[Image: murder.jpg]

And if and when they do, they will fucking well be Christian terrorists.

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13-06-2016, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 12:30 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 11:50 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Ain't buying it. Instead the Evangelical Christians just walk into Planned Parenthood clinics and start shooting as a "warrior for the babies." And my guess is that now that the "asshole bigots on the right" seen a massacre of gays they're thinking to themselves "Damn, that's a good idea. Why didn't I think of it?"

[Image: murder.jpg]

And if and when they do, they will fucking well be Christian terrorists.

ummmm .... if and when? ... they already have .... like many times .... for decades ... and I ain't never heard the phrase "Christian terrorist" tagged on any of them on the news or in print. Like ever. And I think that is the gist of the point I'm trying to make.

Christian terrorists get the benefit of the doubt that they are just batshit bonkers insane outliers while Islamic terrorists are just assumed to be the devil incarnate representing all Muslims instead. Bothers me. Feels like bigotry.

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13-06-2016, 12:49 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 12:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  And if and when they do, they will fucking well be Christian terrorists.

ummmm .... if and when? ... they already have .... like many times .... for decades ... and I ain't never heard the phrase "Christian terrorist" tagged on any of them on the news or in print. Like ever. And I think that is the gist of the point I'm trying to make.

Christian terrorists get the benefit of the doubt that they are just batshit bonkers insane outliers while Islamic terrorists are just assumed to be the devil incarnate representing all Muslims instead. Bothers me. Feels like bigotry.

It feels more like cultural blindness and/or pandering to me, but I see your point. Consider

We live in a majority Christian culture, so pissing off the majority is not good marketing.

Whether or not called Christian terrorists, they are Christian terrorists.

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13-06-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 09:33 AM)I Am Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:19 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I am not sure , but are you trying to say that Christian and Islamic terrorism are comparable?

I wouldn't presume to speak for Girly. I will say that the textual justifications for violence exist in all the Abrahamic traditions, waiting for someone to shout them with charismatic fervor at a receptive audience.

Right now Islam is being used for violence more than Judaism or Christianity. Not too long ago, historically speaking, Christianity was prominent in justifying slavery and genocide. Judaism was used to promote a variety of bloodthirsty regional wars some centuries before that. Who knows what the faddish death cult will be in a hundred years or so?

I'm their current expression, Islam does seem to have a lead in body count. In their potential to inspire and justify murder as righteousness, they have all proven themselves one time or another.

Christianity in the Western world has been defanged, as a result of the Thirty Years' War; that was when Europe learnt the dangers of untrammelled religion, and clamped limits on it in the subsequent two hundred or so years. And because the US was founded by European immigrants who'd imbibed those values, we also imposed a wall of separation between religion and governance.

Islam has yet to be caged in such a manner, but I'd be willing to bet that were Christianity to be uncaged, we'd see the return of religious law, witch-burnings, and so on.
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13-06-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 12:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  And if and when they do, they will fucking well be Christian terrorists.

ummmm .... if and when? ... they already have .... like many times .... for decades ... and I ain't never heard the phrase "Christian terrorist" tagged on any of them on the news or in print. Like ever. And I think that is the gist of the point I'm trying to make.

Christian terrorists get the benefit of the doubt that they are just batshit bonkers insane outliers while Islamic terrorists are just assumed to be the devil incarnate representing all Muslims instead. Bothers me. Feels like bigotry.

Why is there always a need to strawman criticism of Islam as "oh, you think all Muslims are terrorists, ha bigot" ?
No, nobody is saying that all Muslims are terrorists.


This is what the issue is.

In all of the 10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men , the link you provided , the total number of victims is 17 + 168 victims of Timothy McVeigh's attack that we know was not religiously motivated.

So, on one hand we have 17 victims from all the worst Christian terrorist attacks dating back to 1984.
And on the other hand , you have 50 victims from only the most recent attack motivated by Islam, with the number of victims amounting to thousands and thousands of victims in recent years, with attacks every couple of months.

What people are saying is not "all Muslims are terrorists", nor do people say "Christians can't be terrorists" , and nobody thinks that Christian terrorist should get a pass.

People are saying , based solely on the number of victims and frequency of the attacks that we are having a much bigger problem with the ideology of Islam as a source of extremism and terrorism, then we have with Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

You know...17 victims .....thousands of victims.

And your response is "Nope, that's just bigotry" ?

Am I getting you right?

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13-06-2016, 02:15 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 02:06 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 12:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ummmm .... if and when? ... they already have .... like many times .... for decades ... and I ain't never heard the phrase "Christian terrorist" tagged on any of them on the news or in print. Like ever. And I think that is the gist of the point I'm trying to make.

Christian terrorists get the benefit of the doubt that they are just batshit bonkers insane outliers while Islamic terrorists are just assumed to be the devil incarnate representing all Muslims instead. Bothers me. Feels like bigotry.

Why is there always a need to strawman criticism of Islam as "oh, you think all Muslims are terrorists, ha bigot" ?
No, nobody is saying that all Muslims are terrorists.


This is what the issue is.

In all of the 10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men , the link you provided , the total number of victims is 17 + 168 victims of Timothy McVeigh's attack that we know was not religiously motivated.

So, on one hand we have 17 victims from all the worst Christian terrorist attacks dating back to 1984.
And on the other hand , you have 50 victims from only the most recent attack motivated by Islam, with the number of victims amounting to thousands and thousands of victims in recent years, with attacks every couple of months.

What people are saying is not "all Muslims are terrorists", nor do people say "Christians can't be terrorists" , and nobody thinks that Christian terrorist should get a pass.

People are saying , based solely on the number of victims and frequency of the attacks that we are having a much bigger problem with the ideology of Islam as a source of extremism and terrorism, then we have with Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

You know...17 victims .....thousands of victims.

And your response is "Nope, that's just bigotry" ?

Am I getting you right?

Are you asking me what say you GirlyPussy "17 victims or thousands of victims?" Do you think I'm gonna dignify that with an answer?

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13-06-2016, 02:16 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 02:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 02:06 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Why is there always a need to strawman criticism of Islam as "oh, you think all Muslims are terrorists, ha bigot" ?
No, nobody is saying that all Muslims are terrorists.


This is what the issue is.

In all of the 10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men , the link you provided , the total number of victims is 17 + 168 victims of Timothy McVeigh's attack that we know was not religiously motivated.

So, on one hand we have 17 victims from all the worst Christian terrorist attacks dating back to 1984.
And on the other hand , you have 50 victims from only the most recent attack motivated by Islam, with the number of victims amounting to thousands and thousands of victims in recent years, with attacks every couple of months.

What people are saying is not "all Muslims are terrorists", nor do people say "Christians can't be terrorists" , and nobody thinks that Christian terrorist should get a pass.

People are saying , based solely on the number of victims and frequency of the attacks that we are having a much bigger problem with the ideology of Islam as a source of extremism and terrorism, then we have with Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

You know...17 victims .....thousands of victims.

And your response is "Nope, that's just bigotry" ?

Am I getting you right?

Are you asking me what say you GirlyPussy "17 victims or thousands of victims?" Do you think I'm gonna answer that?

No, that's not what I was asking you.

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