Mass shooting in Orlando
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14-06-2016, 10:14 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(14-06-2016 09:16 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 08:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yes, I know, Evangelical Christians are also backward idiots, but what`s your point?

That Evangelical Christians can also be violent backwards idiots.

I understand what you said, I just don't understand why you said it.
Why did you feel the need to point that out. Is that some kind of an excuse, "Christians do it too"?

Criticizing Christianity and hard line Christians is by far the most favorite pastime among atheists but in no point in time will you get anybody jumping in with "but Muslims do it too".
But as soon somebody starts criticizing Islam , there is always without exception somebody , like you in this case , that rushes to point out that "Christians do it too"

Why do you think that is?

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14-06-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
An excuse? There is no excuse. Bronze Age fairy tales don't give men the right to do whatever they want whenever they want with their wives. You posted a graphic that indicated a majority of Muslims hold a particular, and deplorable I might add, point of view. I added a graphic that indicated a majority of Evangelical Christians feel the same way. i.e. Muslims aren't special in this particular instance. For some reason I don't understand that seems to offend you. About all I can say about that is tough shit. Get over it or fuck off. Your choice.

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14-06-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(14-06-2016 10:46 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  An excuse? There is no excuse. Bronze Age fairy tales don't give men the right to do whatever they want whenever they want with their wives. You posted a graphic that indicated a majority of Muslims hold a particular, and deplorable I might add, point of view. I added a graphic that indicated a majority of Evangelical Christians feel the same way. i.e. Muslims aren't special in this particular instance. For some reason I don't understand that seems to offend you. About all I can say about that is tough shit. Get over it or fuck off. Your choice.

Your graph didn't offend me, don't flatter yourself , nothing you could possibly do can offend me.
The reason why I posted the graph is because the subject of this thread is the Oregon shooting, and the perpetrator is a Muslim man who was also abusive to his wife, which makes my graph on topic.
Since nobody even mentioned that this was "Muslim only" thing , your graph is off topic and irrelevant to the subject of this thread.
Now, if your regressive ass gets offended on behalf of the Muslims when you see someone criticizing Islam so you feel the need to defend it by pointing out that "Christians do it too" , all I can say to that is tough shit. Get over it or fuck off.

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14-06-2016, 11:19 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(13-06-2016 10:59 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:33 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Maybe not where you're at. The media here in America sells Islamophobia like it's going out of style.
Can you post some examples? I haven't seen CNN, the Huffington Post, the New York Times, MSNBC or the Washington Post peddling Islamophobia after this tragedy occurred.

I wasn't speaking specifically about the reportage of this attack, but in general.

Here's information from Wiki for Fox, the highest-rated cable news outlet in America. And that same article points out the hubbub over the so-called "Ground Zero mosque" was largely fueled by media coverage which misrepresented the intent and even location of the community center.

(13-06-2016 10:59 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Can we stop using that ridiculous term already, by the way? There's nothing irrational about being afraid of or hating an ideology whose adherents are prone to commit violence against those who criticize or act counter to their religious beliefs.

I agree that the term is bruited about unfairly at times, but the fact is that the majority of Western Muslims don't support terrorism. Yet they are lumped in with the terrorists all the same by too many Americans. In those cases, it is fair to call Islamophobia what it is.

(13-06-2016 10:59 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:33 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Now that I think of it, didn't Austria just elect a far-right guy in part on his rhetoric against Muslim immigrants?
No, that guy lost the election by a very narrow margin (>1%).

Thanks for the correction.
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14-06-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(14-06-2016 10:14 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 09:16 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  That Evangelical Christians can also be violent backwards idiots.

I understand what you said, I just don't understand why you said it.
Why did you feel the need to point that out. Is that some kind of an excuse, "Christians do it too"?

Criticizing Christianity and hard line Christians is by far the most favorite pastime among atheists but in no point in time will you get anybody jumping in with "but Muslims do it too".
But as soon somebody starts criticizing Islam , there is always without exception somebody , like you in this case , that rushes to point out that "Christians do it too"

Why do you think that is?

Because, despite this incident, most LGBTQA Americans deal with violence from Christians--more verbal than physical, but attacks are still far too frequent--far more than they deal with it from Muslims. It's also because the psychology and theology behind the repression are so similar-- keep in mind that the Bible explicitly calls for the stoning deaths of gays, and the term "faggot" originated as a reminder to gay people that they were once burned at the stake.

Just because our culture has largely moved to disparaging actual violence doesn't mean the root of the problem is not the same in both (related) religions, and we are right to point out the similarities. For instance: the shooter's dad made a horrible comment about gays, then softened it with a "but it's for God to judge their sin, not me" (paraphrase), which is identical to the rhetoric of every evangelical Christian with whom I have ever spoken on this subject.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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14-06-2016, 12:20 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 12:26 PM by Slowminded.)
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(14-06-2016 11:20 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 10:14 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I understand what you said, I just don't understand why you said it.
Why did you feel the need to point that out. Is that some kind of an excuse, "Christians do it too"?

Criticizing Christianity and hard line Christians is by far the most favorite pastime among atheists but in no point in time will you get anybody jumping in with "but Muslims do it too".
But as soon somebody starts criticizing Islam , there is always without exception somebody , like you in this case , that rushes to point out that "Christians do it too"

Why do you think that is?

Because, despite this incident, most LGBTQA Americans deal with violence from Christians--more verbal than physical, but attacks are still far too frequent--far more than they deal with it from Muslims. It's also because the psychology and theology behind the repression are so similar-- keep in mind that the Bible explicitly calls for the stoning deaths of gays, and the term "faggot" originated as a reminder to gay people that they were once burned at the stake.

Just because our culture has largely moved to disparaging actual violence doesn't mean the root of the problem is not the same in both (related) religions, and we are right to point out the similarities. For instance: the shooter's dad made a horrible comment about gays, then softened it with a "but it's for God to judge their sin, not me" (paraphrase), which is identical to the rhetoric of every evangelical Christian with whom I have ever spoken on this subject.

Yeah, but when we are talking about Christian bigotry ( and we often do ) , and the harassment that LGBTQ population suffers from Christians, nobody ever makes an argument "but Muslims do it too" do they?


You have only 1% of Muslim population in US and 70% Christians, and this is the only reason why LGBTQ population suffers more harassment from Christians in the USA.

USA is not the whole world, in Europe , Christian fundamentalists are rare and far between, most of the harassment that LGBTQ population suffers comes from Muslims. And you do know how LGBTQ population is treated in predominately Muslim countries?
Both Christianity and Islam are global religions, you can't judge only by what's happening in your backyard.

Root of the problem of intolerance towards LGBTQ population is the same in Christianity and in Islam, there is no dispute there.

To some extent , I understand , you in US hear Trump, and you think "omg, this bigotry must stop" and you are a witness to mass hysteria and fear mongering and so on , and I guess, you assume that all criticism of Islam is coming from that place of bigotry and misunderstanding.
Maybe you are not to be expected to know or understand the situation in Europe, but don't make judgment calls based solely on what is happening in the USA.

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14-06-2016, 01:02 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
I'm getting a little exhausted of people deflecting legitimate criticism of the problems we already have with Christian culture by pointing to the fact that Muslim culture is in many ways worse. It's compounded when people try to treat every Muslim as if they agree with the violent and bigoted sentiments of the fundamentalists, and when people try to point out that it's a small group of Muslims who are the problem so maybe we should question our harsh treatment of all members of that religion, we're attacked for "defending Islamists", which is of course the opposite of what we're doing.

Of course I'm going to primarily focus on Christians, as they impact my life more often... in Europe, they've mostly been suppressed, thankfully. Very rarely does Muslim culture impact people in Western society, though that is changing with the influx of medievalist Muslims into Europe and elsewhere. As such, it is right to begin pointing out that A) it is definitely a major problem, and B) it's the same root problem we already deal with among the Christian extremists.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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14-06-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
Matt's Sermon:
3:06 - 11:56
Poignant stuff

Anthony Magnabosco's comments:
12:00 - 13:30




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14-06-2016, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 02:30 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
I hope this happens...while I'll admit I run hot and cold with Huff Post, this opinion piece nails it, the vigils should affirm atheist and humanists and not just pound the regilgous tripe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-crof...48526.html


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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14-06-2016, 02:27 PM
RE: Mass shooting in Orlando
(12-06-2016 08:35 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I haven't heard any of the details but it apparently took place in a gay nightclub. 50 are dead.

How sad, horrific and tragic. Gasp
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