Mass shootings every single day!
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17-12-2012, 08:54 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(17-12-2012 08:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 08:41 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  The focus of gun law should be to prevent dangerous people from owning guns; not to stop everyone from owning dangerous guns. If you are a sane and responsible individual who understands firearm safety then there is no reason you should not be allowed to own any firearm from a .22 plinker to a .45-70 bear killer to an AR-15, from a .22 derringer to a Glock 17 to a S&W 500, from a break-action .410 to a SPAS-12.

I concur. ... None of your suggestions could've prevented this particular tragedy, though. I'm not sure there are any measures which could've prevented this particular tragedy. Think if crazy fuck had only a shotgun he could've killed just as many kids in the same amount of time before the cops got there. Just wouldn't've needed to shoot them more than once.

An increase in the amount of psychiatric care available, a reduction in the cost of that care, a greater acceptance of psychiatry, a loss of the stereotype of the Freudian "Shrink"--then maybe someone would have found out what was going on in his head, and helped him with therapy or medicine before he started killing people. And maybe he could have had his (hypothetical) gun license temporarily suspended, until he could be judged well enough to own them again.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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17-12-2012, 09:57 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2012 10:06 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(17-12-2012 08:54 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 08:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I concur. ... None of your suggestions could've prevented this particular tragedy, though. I'm not sure there are any measures which could've prevented this particular tragedy. Think if crazy fuck had only a shotgun he could've killed just as many kids in the same amount of time before the cops got there. Just wouldn't've needed to shoot them more than once.

An increase in the amount of psychiatric care available, a reduction in the cost of that care, a greater acceptance of psychiatry, a loss of the stereotype of the Freudian "Shrink"--then maybe someone would have found out what was going on in his head, and helped him with therapy or medicine before he started killing people. And maybe he could have had his (hypothetical) gun license temporarily suspended, until he could be judged well enough to own them again.

That's all fine and dandy, but speaking as a decades-long manic depressive with excellent health insurance, now I'm gonna invoke the slippery slope. I get to decide when I stop taking the lithium, I get to decide when I stop taking the antidepressants, I get to decide when the fucking shrinks are full of shit and stop seeing them. What you gonna do about me? Put me away? Doesn't feel consistent with your position.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
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17-12-2012, 10:06 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
If you've got mental issues that mean you might go postal, and you go off your meds, you'll get your license revoked. Now comes some tricky stuff. Do you confiscate the guns? For how long? Where are they stored? What guarantee is there that they'll be maintained? I don't have answers to those questions at the moment.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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17-12-2012, 10:17 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(17-12-2012 10:06 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  If you've got mental issues that mean you might go postal, and you go off your meds, ...

So you're all for the state telling me what meds I need to take in order to own a gun, but completely opposed to the state telling you what firearms you can own. ... Fuck that inconsistent untenable bullshit.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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17-12-2012, 10:19 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
It's illegal for me to drive without my glasses on because it's unsafe. Is that inconsistent and untenable?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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17-12-2012, 10:26 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(17-12-2012 10:19 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  It's illegal for me to drive without my glasses on because it's unsafe. Is that inconsistent and untenable?

You're equating manic depression with nearsightedness? Seriously? ... You got no fucking clue.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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17-12-2012, 11:09 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(15-12-2012 02:44 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Maybe. Doesn't mean the US would be. Europe has always had weapon restrictions, since the 12th century when peasants were forbidden from owning swords. Most of Europe never had significant gun ownership.

There are millions of guns in the US already. Any law banning guns would grandfather millions; trying to confiscate the guns already owned would result in thousands dead from rednecks shooting the police trying to confiscate the guns they're being shot with.

With millions of guns already in the US, banning additional guns will not have any beneficial effect for at least a century. Possibly longer. Guns last a long time, they don't break down after a couple years' use.

Banning guns in the US is not practical and would not result in the situation you have in Europe, because you never had many guns in the first place.

I haven't actually read any posts since this one as I've been working all weekend and you've all racked up another 15 pages so sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said or I'm way off topic.

Congratulations Phaedrus. You are the first person on this forum who I've ever seen make a good point on US gun regulations from a pro-gun viewpoint. This is the first time anyone has actually made me reconsider my position on the topic. Before now, everyone trying to justify a pro-gun stance has sounded like a three year old trying to justify why an all chocolate diet is a good idea (sorry people but it's true).

Taking what you've said into account I think that banning all guns in America would probably be a bad idea. Don't get me wrong, if it was possible to achieve I think it would be a preferred solution but I can see that it isn't possible to achieve. I do however think that America should look at banning weapons such assault weapons and having tighter controls on sales of other guns.

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17-12-2012, 11:46 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
UGH.


Actual assault rifles have been regulated as title III firearms since 1934. Since then, 2 have been used in a crime,one was by a cop. Don't believe me? Please call the ATF/FBI. IT IS A NON ISSUE. More people have been killed by bath tubbs.


The amount of dis-information on firearms is staggering. Statistics on both sides are incredibly biased.Anti gun statistics are notorious for including suicide in every study they possibly can .Have you ever heard of a truly expert shooter/armorer/gunsmith/technical gun expert etc etc,IE a real S.M.E. who was pro gun ban? No,because once you demystify firearms,people are either interested or not by them.Anti gunners are fixated by firearms but in a negative way much like primitive man was about just about anything they didnt understand but looked cool Big Grin .
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18-12-2012, 05:48 AM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(17-12-2012 08:54 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 08:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I concur. ... None of your suggestions could've prevented this particular tragedy, though. I'm not sure there are any measures which could've prevented this particular tragedy. Think if crazy fuck had only a shotgun he could've killed just as many kids in the same amount of time before the cops got there. Just wouldn't've needed to shoot them more than once.

An increase in the amount of psychiatric care available, a reduction in the cost of that care, a greater acceptance of psychiatry, a loss of the stereotype of the Freudian "Shrink"--then maybe someone would have found out what was going on in his head, and helped him with therapy or medicine before he started killing people. And maybe he could have had his (hypothetical) gun license temporarily suspended, until he could be judged well enough to own them again.
No license; he stole the guns from his mother.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2012, 05:51 AM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(17-12-2012 11:09 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(15-12-2012 02:44 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Maybe. Doesn't mean the US would be. Europe has always had weapon restrictions, since the 12th century when peasants were forbidden from owning swords. Most of Europe never had significant gun ownership.

There are millions of guns in the US already. Any law banning guns would grandfather millions; trying to confiscate the guns already owned would result in thousands dead from rednecks shooting the police trying to confiscate the guns they're being shot with.

With millions of guns already in the US, banning additional guns will not have any beneficial effect for at least a century. Possibly longer. Guns last a long time, they don't break down after a couple years' use.

Banning guns in the US is not practical and would not result in the situation you have in Europe, because you never had many guns in the first place.

I haven't actually read any posts since this one as I've been working all weekend and you've all racked up another 15 pages so sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said or I'm way off topic.

Congratulations Phaedrus. You are the first person on this forum who I've ever seen make a good point on US gun regulations from a pro-gun viewpoint. This is the first time anyone has actually made me reconsider my position on the topic. Before now, everyone trying to justify a pro-gun stance has sounded like a three year old trying to justify why an all chocolate diet is a good idea (sorry people but it's true).

Taking what you've said into account I think that banning all guns in America would probably be a bad idea. Don't get me wrong, if it was possible to achieve I think it would be a preferred solution but I can see that it isn't possible to achieve. I do however think that America should look at banning weapons such assault weapons and having tighter controls on sales of other guns.
Please define "assault weapon".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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