Mass shootings every single day!
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18-12-2012, 11:32 AM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
I posted this on another thread and I post it again here
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/...r-shooting


Look at other countries and see where they got it right. Improve our system.

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18-12-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
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18-12-2012, 11:52 AM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 11:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  My bad, I misread a table. But the more recent rate for the U.S. is 4.2 per 100k. It has dropped since the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.
And you think there is a correlation?

(18-12-2012 11:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  Notwithstanding, the U.S. is below the world average and ranks about 105th in the world, behind such notables as Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cuba, and (!) Greenland.
How does any of that change anything at the piss-poor situation in the USA? How does the fact that the US doesn't have the highest murder rate change anything at the necessity to regulate guns more strictly?

Besides that, it's fallacious to look at the murder rates without also looking at the number of homicides.

Bermuda (64,268 citizens)
Murder rate: 12,3
Murder count: 8

British Virgin Islands (27,800 citizens)
Murder rate: 8,6
Murder count: 2

Cuba (11,241,161 citizens)
Murder rate: 5,0
Murder count: 563

Greenland (56,749 citizens)
Murder rate: 19,2
Murder count: 11

Really, Chas? It seems like you are grasping at straws at this point.

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18-12-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
As with what Vosur said, "dropped" by how much? Statistically significant? Was there a global drop too or only an anomaly in the US? Overall drop for all those years, or a series of increases and decreases which someone fit a regression to to say it was going down?

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18-12-2012, 12:03 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 11:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As with what Vosur said, "dropped" by how much? Statistically significant? Was there a global drop too or only an anomaly in the US? Overall drop for all those years, or a series of increases and decreases which someone fit a regression to to say it was going down?
Not very important and not to the point.

The ban on "evil guns" ended in 2004. What happened? Mass murders every day? The murder rate rose?

No, the murder rate dropped.

The "assault weapon ban" did not have the intended effect. "Assault weapons" are not the problem.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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18-12-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 11:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As with what Vosur said, "dropped" by how much? Statistically significant? Was there a global drop too or only an anomaly in the US? Overall drop for all those years, or a series of increases and decreases which someone fit a regression to to say it was going down?
Not very important and not to the point.

The ban on "evil guns" ended in 2004. What happened? Mass murders every day? The murder rate rose?

No, the murder rate dropped.

The "assault weapon ban" did not have the intended effect. "Assault weapons" are not the problem.
Just weapons.

and it is important. I attached a sine curve I made for something else. Which trend line matters? Which one is significant? Which one shows the real trend? The answer? all of them. Because time matters.

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18-12-2012, 12:11 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2012 12:17 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, the murder rate dropped.
Actually, the murder rate increased from 2004 to 2007. It wasn't until 2008 that the rates started dropping below the level of 2004 and until 2009 that the number of homicides dropped below the 2004 level. As a result, there is no good reason to assume a causal relationship between the expiration of the ban on assault weapons and the decrease of the murder rate many years later.

(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  The ban on "evil guns" ended in 2004. What happened? Mass murders every day? The murder rate rose?
See above. Yes, the murder rate did rise following the expiration of the ban on assault weapons.

(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  The "assault weapon ban" did not have the intended effect. "Assault weapons" are not the problem.
Who said that assault weapons are the problem? Firearms are the problem.

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18-12-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 12:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  The "assault weapon ban" did not have the intended effect. "Assault weapons" are not the problem.
Who said that assault weapons are the problem?
I said assault weapons were a problem, not being aware of the apparent elastic usage of the word.

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18-12-2012, 12:19 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 12:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  The ban on "evil guns" ended in 2004. What happened? Mass murders every day? The murder rate rose?

No, the murder rate dropped.
Actually, the murder rate increased from 2004 to 2007. It wasn't until 2008 that the rates started dropping below the level of 2004 and until 2009 that the number of homicides dropped below the 2004 level. As a result, there is no good reason to assume a causal relationship between the expiration of the ban on assault weapons and the decrease of the murder rate many years later. Yes, the murder rate did rise following the expiration of the ban on assault weapons.

And there is no reason to suppose that a short-term rise was caused by the expiration of the ban.

Quote:
(18-12-2012 12:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  The "assault weapon ban" did not have the intended effect. "Assault weapons" are not the problem.
Who said that assault weapons are the problem?

Some others have called for re-instituting the legislation. It solved no problems.

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18-12-2012, 12:21 PM
RE: Mass shootings every single day!
(18-12-2012 12:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  And there is no reason to suppose that a short-term rise was caused by the expiration of the ban.
You're attacking a straw man. I didn't suggest that the expiration of the ban was the cause of the rise of the murder rates, you made the claim that the murder rates dropped following the expiration despite the fact that this is demonstrably false.

(18-12-2012 12:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Some others have called for re-instituting the legislation. It solved no problems.
There was no attempt at closing certain loopholes (hint: gun shows) and regulating firearms more strictly. That's your problem.

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