Materialist Bias?
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31-12-2013, 07:12 AM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 06:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so what was Jesus' birth-date?

What date was Jesus crucified?

Do I even need to go on?
Yes. When asserting a contradiction, one should quote the allegedly contradictory statements at a minimum. As noted to RP, though, a different thread - YACT - would be appropriate.
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31-12-2013, 08:19 AM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 07:12 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 06:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so what was Jesus' birth-date?

What date was Jesus crucified?

Do I even need to go on?
Yes. When asserting a contradiction, one should quote the allegedly contradictory statements at a minimum. As noted to RP, though, a different thread - YACT - would be appropriate.

Burden of proof belongs to the one making extraordinary claims - that's you. Not the other way around.

and............. Censored

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31-12-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 07:07 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 07:34 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Was Josephus' agenda in any way related to the census?
No. Neither was Luke's. People were able to go to Bethlehem for many reasons. A census wasn't necessary to get them there.

Luke's agenda was to convince people that Jesus was born in Bethlehem at a certain point in time. He had to fudge the date of the census relative to Matthew's claim of Herod to pull this off. If you don't see any agenda for Josephus to fudge the date of the census, then Luke comes off looking far less credible.


(31-12-2013 07:07 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
Quote:What's not a given? That there are no contradictions?
It's not a given that there are contradictions.
Quote:Please, elaborate.
Contradictions were your point - you elaborate if you like, although a different thread would probably be appropriate.

Regarding agendas - you have an agenda. I have an agenda. Most everyone has agendas. Scientists have agendas. As Dawkins said, "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."

It's fine to exercise increased skepticism when someone has an incentive to promote a claim. It's easy to spot agendas in opponents. However, it's more difficult to spot the agenda in yourself or your allies. If you don't take Luke seriously because he has an agenda, yet you take others with agendas seriously, what's the difference? Maybe that materialist bias that we're considering?

Always with the new threads. There was one on this a while ago, actually. If I remember correctly, you read one example, said it wasn't a contradiction, and refused to read the others:

(11-12-2013 11:37 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 10:21 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I wasn't referring to any one specific thing, but rather to the Bible's contradictory nature.
That chart cracks me up. The very first one given can't be shown to be a contradiction.

Anyway, there it is.
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31-12-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 12:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Luke's agenda was to convince people that Jesus was born in Bethlehem at a certain point in time. He had to fudge the date of the census relative to Matthew's claim of Herod to pull this off.
No, he didn't need to fudge any dates. He could have simply said they were visiting relatives in Bethlehem.
Quote:Always with the new threads. There was one on this a while ago, actually. If I remember correctly, you read one example, said it wasn't a contradiction,
Yes, and showed you why it isn't a contradiction via pm.
Quote:and refused to read the others:
There are 669 listed. The first one doesn't hold up. You're right, I'm not reading the other 668. That's not unreasonable. If I posted a link to AIG and implied that evolution fails unless you refuted each article on the site, you'd correctly note it as unreasonable. Further, I doubt you've read them all either. If you have, pick out the best ones if you want to discuss them.
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31-12-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 12:42 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 12:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Luke's agenda was to convince people that Jesus was born in Bethlehem at a certain point in time. He had to fudge the date of the census relative to Matthew's claim of Herod to pull this off.
No, he didn't need to fudge any dates. He could have simply said they were visiting relatives in Bethlehem.

And he didn't. He went with a major historical event that allegedly had people traveling for miles. And the dates didn't match another historian who had no reason to lie about it.
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31-12-2013, 04:40 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 07:12 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 06:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so what was Jesus' birth-date?

What date was Jesus crucified?

Do I even need to go on?
Yes. When asserting a contradiction, one should quote the allegedly contradictory statements at a minimum. As noted to RP, though, a different thread - YACT - would be appropriate.

I don't have to quote the scripture, as we both know that those are common contradictions (seeing as how King Herod died 10 years before the census of Quirinius). You're just being a troll, so go fuck yourself. Thumbsup

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31-12-2013, 07:06 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 02:35 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  And he didn't. He went with a major historical event that allegedly had people traveling for miles. And the dates didn't match another historian who had no reason to lie about it.
Luke had no reason to lie about it, and had good reason not to lie about it, as it may have hurt his agenda. Further, you have an agenda, and so accept the account which supports that agenda.
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31-12-2013, 07:12 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 04:40 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I don't have to quote the scripture, as we both know that those are common contradictions (seeing as how King Herod died 10 years before the census of Quirinius). You're just being a troll, so go fuck yourself. Thumbsup
IOW, We don' need no stinking debate, just admit I'm right, dammit! Drooling
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31-12-2013, 07:21 PM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 07:12 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 04:40 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I don't have to quote the scripture, as we both know that those are common contradictions (seeing as how King Herod died 10 years before the census of Quirinius). You're just being a troll, so go fuck yourself. Thumbsup
IOW, We don' need no stinking debate, just admit I'm right, dammit! Drooling

The contradictions are well-documented, so yeah - he's right. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-01-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: Materialist Bias?
(31-12-2013 07:06 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 02:35 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  And he didn't. He went with a major historical event that allegedly had people traveling for miles. And the dates didn't match another historian who had no reason to lie about it.
Luke had no reason to lie about it, and had good reason not to lie about it, as it may have hurt his agenda. Further, you have an agenda, and so accept the account which supports that agenda.

And so do you.

See, while you may think my bias is showing when I accept Josephus' account of the census, you accept Luke's. Not only do you accept Luke's account, but you accept all the other far fetched, magical stuff in the book because of your agenda.

Some type of supernatural bias, or something.
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