Matthew 13, 1-18
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03-03-2016, 02:47 PM
Matthew 13, 1-18
I was raised mormon.
I cant say i was devout, but being thats all i ever knew, i always thought it must have been real. The whole literal/figurative thing kept me in, i guess. I didnt believe noahs ark was real, or the other tall tales, but i didnt question the story of jesus.
It wasnt until i was in my teens, when my family and missionaries, were discussing this chapter that i broke down and couldnt take it anymore.
Being raised in the faith, i was always told my generation (and presumably the ones that followed) were saved for these last days and so on, that we'd be up against the greatest challenges, and that we were some how a special bunch.
Obviously, no one had a choice where their seed was sown.
The implications of that passage hit me like a freight train.
At the end of it all, they prayed and thanked god for the strong response it had caused, like my feeling of being condemned from the get go was good thing (inevitability, omniscience)
Obviously, i understand it all better now that i am an atheist (fall, original sin, natural man enemy to god, etc), but have any of you encountered this parable and how is it handled?
Does every believer just believe themselves to be sown in the suitible soil and that the not-so--true believers were in the other two?
That whole thing was instrumental in my deconversion, as i knew in my heart that i was never up to snuff, and with the whole denying the holy spirit thing (of which i believed i couldnt escape, being sown on the rocky soil), so it started to put the whole thing in perspective.
But yea.
What is your experiences with this, and other, passages that clearly state that not everyone makes the grade, but the all powerful god, who so wants you to return to him, is actively preventing it?
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03-03-2016, 03:08 PM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
(03-03-2016 02:47 PM)Gordon Blue Wrote:  I was raised mormon.
I cant say i was devout, but being thats all i ever knew, i always thought it must have been real. The whole literal/figurative thing kept me in, i guess. I didnt believe noahs ark was real, or the other tall tales, but i didnt question the story of jesus.
It wasnt until i was in my teens, when my family and missionaries, were discussing this chapter that i broke down and couldnt take it anymore.
Being raised in the faith, i was always told my generation (and presumably the ones that followed) were saved for these last days and so on, that we'd be up against the greatest challenges, and that we were some how a special bunch.
Obviously, no one had a choice where their seed was sown.
The implications of that passage hit me like a freight train.
At the end of it all, they prayed and thanked god for the strong response it had caused, like my feeling of being condemned from the get go was good thing (inevitability, omniscience)
Obviously, i understand it all better now that i am an atheist (fall, original sin, natural man enemy to god, etc), but have any of you encountered this parable and how is it handled?
Does every believer just believe themselves to be sown in the suitible soil and that the not-so--true believers were in the other two?
That whole thing was instrumental in my deconversion, as i knew in my heart that i was never up to snuff, and with the whole denying the holy spirit thing (of which i believed i couldnt escape, being sown on the rocky soil), so it started to put the whole thing in perspective.
But yea.
What is your experiences with this, and other, passages that clearly state that not everyone makes the grade, but the all powerful god, who so wants you to return to him, is actively preventing it?

That's the problem with this god shit. Before christardology came along, Man was not subservient to his gods. They were there to help Man achieve his goals and they were expected to do their part and assist. Man was expected to go out into the world and bring back knowledge for the benefit of mankind. Man didn't create works of art and construct great building to glorify their gods, it was to display the achievements of Mankind. It was a case of Man and his gods in perfect harmony.

Then came along christardology. What a disgrace. Man became down-trodden. He had to bow his head to some make-believe god. Man became subservient.

Man swallowed christardology hook, line and sinker.

I say swallowed. christards murdered non-believers by the million in an attempt to foist their religion on the world. It's been estimated by some that christards murdered somewhere between 100 - 200 million people in an attempt to make the world submit to them. The number is probably not this high but it is certainly in the millions. Christardology is the most blood-thirsty cult that the world has ever seen. This number does not include the millions that christards raped, pillage, tortured and raped.

Type rape and murder in the bible into Google and read. The book is disgusting.

... And all this brought to you by a religion that pretends to be about peace, love, acceptance and understanding.

Marburg virus, Ebola, Rabies, HIV, Smallpox, Hantavirus, Dengue Fever all brought to you by god - who cares for us and loves us all Censored
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03-03-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
Oh for sure. I see it now, how twisted it is, but as a believer, it terrified me.
It just seemed totally backwards to everything else i was told, but thats mormanism for you. Their teachings dont really line up with christianity because of their extra content.
But even in non-mormon christianity, how do passages like that effect people? Is it like the JWs believe they are one of the 4400 (or whatever), just by virtue of their own belief? Is it just a case of othering where the believer thinks they are all good, and it is the others that arent going to make it?
How many believers who question their faith are honest about where their seed falls?
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03-03-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
The moral of the story is that you need to use a big heap of bullshit if you want a good crop of believers.

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03-03-2016, 04:37 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2016 11:00 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
Almost all the "parables" were already circulating in the ancient Near East, as literary fragments. None were unique to Jesus. They (each set of gospel editors) tuned them up and re-formed the ones they wanted to use, for their own purposes. Since Jesus probably never existed, and certainly no one who actually heard him preach (if he did exist) could possibly remember anything THAT much later, think "invented-fictional-mythological". Read the gospels again critically, with the thought in the back of your mind "How *developed* is this theology ? Is this something that arose (or could have made sense) before the diaspora, that made any sense while the temple still stood, that makes sense even before 100 CE, 125 CE, or even 150 -250 CE ? Then tie your hand behind your back, or you will end up with a traumatic brain injury, from all the face palming.

For example, Acts starts out fairly early, with Peter making a statement that reflects a MUCH MUCH later and decades (at minimum) of thought and theological development (ie "died for our sins" etc, etc) There is no possible way he ever either said that, or even had that thought. It's not a Jewish thought, it's not the thought of an uneducated fisherman. It's a "later theology", overlaid onto a fictional storyline ... (as is anything *trinitarian*).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-03-2016, 05:02 PM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
I definately dont believe in any of it now, and havent for the last decade.
I really enjoy the work of Richard Carrier. I think he makes a solid case for the nonexistance of jesus, and by extention, anything, word or deed, attributed to him. This forum and the work of Seth have really helped me understand that we all have nothing to fear or worry about in regards to what we may have been told when we were believers.
Back then, however, i didnt know any of that.
However, i am curious. As a believer, how did any of you deal with such things? And current believers, how do you deal with it now? Where was your seed sown?
Sorry if these things are being answered and i am missing it.
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03-03-2016, 05:11 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2016 10:54 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
I knew I was worse than her, so I got over it, right quick.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en...adseed.PNG

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-03-2016, 06:26 PM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
As I understand it, not everybody will understand the message from Jesus. Unfortunately that's not just as they want you to believe. There are people that doesn't matter what they do they're doomed. What kind of utterly just god would condemn his so called "child" knowing that he predestinate them to be dommed. It's horrendous.

"Skepticism is the first step towards truth" -Denis Diderot
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03-03-2016, 10:22 PM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
(03-03-2016 06:26 PM)Seeking_Truth Wrote:  As I understand it, not everybody will understand the message from Jesus. Unfortunately that's not just as they want you to believe. There are people that doesn't matter what they do they're doomed. What kind of utterly just god would condemn his so called "child" knowing that he predestinate them to be dommed. It's horrendous.

What kind of human would dream up such a tale and scare children with it? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-03-2016, 02:42 AM
RE: Matthew 13, 1-18
(03-03-2016 10:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 06:26 PM)Seeking_Truth Wrote:  As I understand it, not everybody will understand the message from Jesus. Unfortunately that's not just as they want you to believe. There are people that doesn't matter what they do they're doomed. What kind of utterly just god would condemn his so called "child" knowing that he predestinate them to be dommed. It's horrendous.

What kind of human would dream up such a tale and scare children with it? Consider
Let me terrify the boy until he is seven and I'll give you the terrified, brainwashed and compliant man.

Marburg virus, Ebola, Rabies, HIV, Smallpox, Hantavirus, Dengue Fever all brought to you by god - who cares for us and loves us all Censored
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