Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
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13-03-2011, 05:07 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Silly Daemon, rabbit is not infallible =p why cat happens to find him quite tasty.
I love using the religion of cat as an example of the absurdity.

It seems to me that we've been rubbing off on you black eyed. At first you were being a bit more dogmatic. My main issue with apologetics is that the desire to believe in specific parts of a religion is not reason to demand the rest of it. Any activity can create some productive things, what you do is keep those and move on. You often describe your own take on the book rather than the churches stances, this suggests you're not exactly being Christian (a member of an organized religion), but you're a Christian (a person who takes inspiration from the Christian bible and adopts the title in order to feel more connected with others, though often having vastly different opinions).

I was born with needs, needs the average person doesn't have. This made fulfilling my needs the utmost importance for me. I lived within my head mainly as a child, so if you want to discuss personal philosophy I was quite able at it when I was 5. Most philosophers I've read appear in things people suggest, because they are people whose ideas impacted others, so of course some of my opinions were quite similar. That did not mean my arguments at 5 held the weight of Plato or John Stuart Mill (a few examples of similar views).

My family was baptist, though a broken home. I saw people happy in their knowing god was with them and understood the concept that god answers the things you can't answer. But god doesn't answer the things. You don't have an answer after accepting god all you have is the word god. I had important needs that were not well understood and I was afraid of admitting.

So, what are these needs? I'm intersexed which means I'm not male or female. I was registered as male at birth and given a surgery so I could pee at 3 days old. Starting at 3 I heard gay jokes (from Christian family members), and so I had a basic idea of what being different incurs. When I learned the difference between boy and girl these things were already imprinted in my mind. A lot of people within Christianity don't believe in people who are neither male nor female, the general orthodoxed explanation of me is that I'm a product of Satan just by how I was born.

So as a product of Satan what answers does the bible give me? Well if I'm not human I have no soul and therefore am not part of the chosen race. Let's go less orthodox, I was clearly aware that I was not male, what was Christianity's answer for my need to not be male? You are male so act like it or you go to hell. I wasn't male because I was born a man, I was male because when born those looking at my infant body said I was. So, either I am not human at all, or my needs must be ignored no matter how severe lest I suffer eternal damnation for doing what my mind and body demands of me.

The idea of me being a spawn of the devil comes from the idea that god is infallible, and since he made man and woman any alternative is not his work. By your own words an infallible all knowing god made an entire universe for the sake of man. And within a garden created for mans enjoyment placed a forbidden object knowing full well that man would do the forbidden thing. Because god knows everything, in desiring the creation of man god knew his only son would be reborn a human and die for the sins of man. He created man in order to have a friend while knowing man would betray him. He learned that causing a flood and destroying everything was too harsh though before ever doing it he knew he would learn this. What is infallible about this god? Truth or parable if this is the word of god about himself shouldn't it correlate with itself?

We have reason to state that the bible proves god fallible, there has to be something more than the bible in order to prove that god is infallible. You asked me for my beliefs and here's a start on Christianity. As was stated, we aren't so unlearned in religion just because we don't live our lives by it. When you live in the bible belt you can't avoid learning.

If you feel that Christians are bad people then don't be Christian. Your belief can come from a Christian bible without having the label. All that taking the name but hating the followers does is make you a hypocrite. You join with these people in a crusade to spread their word yet you think their word is stupid.

Thank you very much for being accepting of the fact you asked for this. It is very healthy to allow yourself to learn from any experience. The only thing I demand of people I know is that they be aware of what they believe. I'm not anti-religious but your religion is anti-me.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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16-03-2011, 01:42 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(09-03-2011 11:54 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Proves? Support evidence plz?

Sure.

Quote:Here's a good site with some info on archaeology and the Bible:
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/
I looked through this site and it has a few problems with it, but it gets the basic points across without overusing words. It's in a Q&A format, so yeah, if any of the questions make an interesting point to you, you should check it out. The first one "Reliability of the Bible" definitely has some good points.

Not really.

The key point here is that the Bible is a work of historical fiction, not high fantasy. Particularly when it comes to the Old Testament. The Jewish people mixed their holy texts with their historical records, and there's a lot of fact thrown in with the crap. However, the facts that the Bible contains are entirely mundane in nature: that Sargon existed, that the Hittites existed, et cetera.

However, this does not lend any credence to the rest of the Bible. If I write a novel set in Lincoln's America, and mention Lincoln and several other famous names of the day in the book, but end it with aliens blowing up Nevada, the fact that I mentioned Lincoln does not make the bit of my book saying that Nevada was wiped off the face of the planet any more correct.

Establishing that Sargon existed does not give you any basis to claim that the Bible as a whole is true - especially since we know for a fact that many sections, such as the Noachian flood, are entirely false.

Quote:This is also covered fairly well in the link i gave. However, to say there is no such proof wouldn't be entirely inaccurate since it relies on the legal-historical method where it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and as the controversial subject this is, people will always consider a doubt at least somewhat reasonable.

Undoubtedly. But I'm not asking for you to establish it to be true with one hundred percent certainty. I'm asking for exactly what you said - evidence that establishes it to be true beyond reasonable doubt.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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06-04-2011, 11:20 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
@Lilith Pride I'm using the mobile site, so I appologise for whatever problems that may cause. I must argue that my religion is not anti-you. The fact that people see you as something from Satan only has grounds in the fact that we're all things that are first from God, and then from Satan. God created mankind, but Satan corrupted it. The entirety of it. I'm as much something from Satan as you are. Your special needs are simply an amplified example of the needs we all have and aren't fulfilled and won't be fulfilled because of the sinful nature of mankind. We all share in this problem and Jesus is the answer God sent us. We have hope. We can better ourselves and where we fail, God succeeds for us. Man, I feel like I'm preaching. Anyways, my point is that as much as Christians make you feel separated and rejected, when you get to the truth of the religion they claim to believe, you're irreplacably valuable. I take the label Christian in order to show people the truth of what the Bible tells us.
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06-04-2011, 11:34 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Black Eyed Ghost - Do you actually believe what you just said?

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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07-04-2011, 12:03 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(06-04-2011 11:20 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  ... you're irreplacably valuable.

Actually, sheep aren't that irreplaceable.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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07-04-2011, 12:32 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(06-04-2011 11:20 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  that we're all things that are first from God, and then from Satan. God created mankind, but Satan corrupted it. The entirety of it. I'm as much something from Satan as you are.

I'm sorry, but that is insulting. And it wasn't even directed at me. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not perfect, but to say that my imperfections (or anyone else's for that matter) is the direct cause of Satan, is an insult to humanity. Most people try their best to be kind to others and do good in this world, but it's belittling the work that people do in order to make this world better, or at least fix their mistakes, to say that we're all corrupted by Satan.

What really fudges my numbers when this is brought up is how this idea that we're all corrupt, even people whom we don't even know, who haven't been born, or have already passed on, comes from the assumption that a book can tell us more about people than talking to them.

Sorry, I just had to vent that as I read your comment.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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07-04-2011, 12:52 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
@No J Yes. @daemonowner Perhaps irreplacably wasn't the best term to use, but the point is the value anyways. @glaucus Satan is the symbol of evil, God is the symbol of good. To say that we're from both is simply to say that we're neither perfect nor ... awful (for lack of a better word). I didn't intend to offend you, I was simply stating it as I understood it. To say we're all corrupt as I did I didn't mean to imply any sort of severity in any individual, but rather the fact that no one is completely perfect and is thus corrupt from the perfection God intended for us.
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07-04-2011, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2011 01:27 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(06-04-2011 11:20 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Your special needs are simply an amplified example of the needs we all have and aren't fulfilled and won't be fulfilled because of the sinful nature of mankind. We all share in this problem and Jesus is the answer God sent us. We have hope. We can better ourselves and where we fail, God succeeds for us.

I have needs but that doesn't bind me anymore. I learned and educated myself in what had to be done. I still get upset sometimes but I'm happy as I am. I don't need to give something faith in order to ignore my actual needs. You can live happily here without any wait, and you don't even need money. You just need to keep turning the world upside down till it looks right.

The allegory of the cave was a much more powerful suggestion than most see. In the way I saw it, it's true that we all see the world in our own slants. If you want to see the world as ugly then feel free, but I love living in a beautiful world where my life is fulfilled without any need for something beyond. Whether there is something beyond or not my happiness and worth is already attained. If I die no matter what happens I won't have to spend my last moments of life in regret over things I stopped myself from doing.

If you read a lot of my posts I'm an example of someone who has had many things get in my way, but I still don't need something else to tell me what I need. I know what I need and I can attain it.

For anyone who really believes that only certain people get to go to happy eternity they should take a good long look at their book. How many people ascend to heaven when they die? The bible is rather attentive of things like that. It doesn't mention many, in fact most people who are focuses of stories get no special privileges at death. They just die. Only a rare few ascend. Back when this was a major concern for people it was believed that the saints ascended to the moon, because during the time Catholicism reigned and all scholars were scholars of the bible they were very attentive to get the exact correct answer.

Julius Ceaser would be proud of Rome if he were alive today. They have nearly succeeded in taking over a world much larger than the scope he ever sought. If you need a reason to see Christianity (the monotheistic portion) as a tool of Rome look at their religion before Christianity. When the Romans conquered the Greeks they adopted the fables and changed the names to make sure that it was understood that this was now Rome. Most every place the Romans inhabited accepted the original cultures by adding in some Rome. So when the Jewish people met with the Romans what surprise is there that eventually the Romans assimilated Judaism into judeo-christianity. There's a serious reason that the Jewish people do not accept Jesus as the messiah or second coming, all of their prophecies said that in the second coming they would be freed from tyranny, at the time they were seeking the messiah to free them from Rome. Instead though Jesus came about and Rome became vastly more powerful than it had been before. Yes the old Rome fell, but the new Rome was much greater in comparison.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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07-04-2011, 01:50 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
@Lilith Pride I'm not asking that you put your faith in anything or that you ignore your needs or anything of the sort. I simply wanted you to understand the truth of what Christianity really says. I admire your fighting spirit and your zeal for life. I see the world as both ugly and beautiful. I try to take a pragmatic view of things. Your optimistic view isn't exactly my style all the time, but to each their own. Anyways, I wish you the best and thanks for your thoughts.
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07-04-2011, 02:10 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(06-04-2011 11:20 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  that we're all things that are first from God, and then from Satan. God created mankind, but Satan corrupted it. The entirety of it. I'm as much something from Satan as you are.

Well blaming Lou for our failures is silly IMO. The idea of being "corrupted" somehow by some alien force is a shameful and illogical way to justify our fallible nature.

When I do wrong to other people, I'm the first to admit that I did do wrong and then I try to make amends and then be a better person by not doing it anymore. WE are the ones who are responsible for our actions. I think is more logical to think that I'm not perfect but even If I'm not perfect, I take the responsablility of my actions instead of seeing myself as a victim.

It makes me a little bit angry when people victimize themselves arguing that humans are nothing but pawns influenced by alien forces from another dimension.

Not to mention the logical conflict generated by this, God created Lou, and God is omniscient, he knew Lou was going to become evil, then, Why God didn't do anything to prevent Lou from "corrupting" mankind?

I know that you probably will tell me about "free will" but free will is in a logical conflict when you introduce an omnipotent and omniscient diety into the equation, Why? Well, because when you are talking about a perfect, omnipotent and omniscient god the free will is just an illusion because that god already knows what will happen no matter the choices we make and the same goes for Lou, even if Lou choose to be evil it is a logical error because an omniscient creator knew from the very beggining that Lou was going to become evil.

Thats the logical flaw when talking about humans being nothing but pawns to the eyes of divine entities IMO.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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